there are good and bad both PA's and NP's
I love the NP that works with my personal OB/GYN but for all that training she sure didn't act like she knew how to do surgery when she was hired (neither do the DO students we get) don't even know how to gown and glove correctly and the CST's teach them.
I don't really like the NP that's in our nursery (not family practice neonatology) but our LC who is an 8 yr RN knows more about newborn GI then she does) But a co-worker from L&D went to NP school and is wonderful in with a family practice doc.
But as a student you do know you can learn from a lot of people including RN's, LPN's, CST, CNA as well as MD experiene counts multitudes. We get a family practice consult for a pregnant patient guess who the MD is asking what to do...the regular old floor RNs and LPNs things such as can if give them xyz drug in pregnancy, if nursing guess they forgot that from medical school.
I agree that there are good and bad NPs and PAs, and as a student I do know that I can learn alot from everyone (guess who taught me how to put in an IV). The point I am trying to make is that NPs and PAs recieve different training that allows us to function best in different areas of medicine and I don't really think it is fair for the above commenters to make blanket statements about PA's.
Unfortunately, I believe you are posting on a nursing forum. That might be a slight handicap. And the original poster asked US what we thought.. And as nurse's are prone to do we told her.. We are not stopping you from telling us your thoughts.. The real problem I see is we have a lot of first hand information and you have your research.. HMMMMMMMMM
WR,,, three commas for Becca
I think many PA's kick themselves when they see the opps each group has and they don't want to admit they made a mistake.. Did I just type that...Wow...
There are two modes of thought in the realm of mid level practitioners. One, that is that we should all help each other in the hopes that we can prolong our careers especially in the face of the lobbying powerhouse like the AMA. Whose sole purpose is the total control of the practice of medicine. They really do not like sharing the medical "pie" with anyone. The second mode of thought is that each type of practitioner is in a race to grab what is left of any piece of that pie. The result is that a bitter game of finger pointing ensues and rivalries occur in the workplace. This benefits no one.
Let me add this little bit of knowledge to this discussion. NP's while once having their BSN followed a nursing science curriculum in their undergraduate studies. The science courses like Biology, Chemistry, Organic Chemistry, Biochemistry, Physics have two tracks one for science majors whom end result would be graduate studies in a science discipline, medical school, or PA school (you can only have science major courses in order to be accepted in an accredited program). The other track is for nursing majors where the courses in some universities are combined in multiple courses and offer only a broad overview of these subjects, or they only require the first two of each of the basics. Anatomy and Pathophysiology are not taught as combined courses in PA school or in Med School and therefore are not considered requirements for entry into these programs because of the intense degree in which they are taught in these programs. NP'S do not have the basic science background the MD's and PA's have that is why they are taught in the nursing modality not the medical modality. They have specialized training in one specific area not a multitude allowing them to branch out into a variety of fields.
So to answer someone's question would I let A Np perform sugery on me, only if this individual recieved a Np degree in surgery. Would I let A PA graduate perform surgery on me, I guess since their PA residency programs in Universities like Duke, Yale, Johns Hopkins etc.. My answer would most definitely be yes.
They have specialized training in one specific area not a multitude allowing them to branch out into a variety of fields.
well since the PA has such a broad base instead of speciality I guess I'll let my OB PA do some brain surgery on me. And since I'm a L&D nurse I know NOTHING about pediatrics even though I did that for a few years and the only thing my nursing school must have taught was L&D. Not to sound overly self assured I'd put myself with years of RN experience up against new grad MD's about anyday in my field...where do you think the medical students doing those endless hours of residency learn in the middle of the night? From the floor nurses on EVERY unit they are on. I'd let an experienced scrub tech do surgery on me too before a new PA...I've seen one of them say to an experienced doc before hey you have a round ligament there not a tube...so much for all those advanced A&P classes
Are you saying ADULT HEALTH is a narrow speciality?????
That's an NP speciality.
WR,,, three commas for Becca
And why is it that the powers that be, who ever they are, allow NP's to hang out their shingle and practice as Practitioners and that same "they" don't allow PA's the same advantage???? Care to comment????
P.S. I did a little "reseach" too.. And I found it very ironic that the PA course lead to a Bachelor's degree and the NP course leads to a Master's.. You didn't miss that did you????
Heck I have a Bachelor's and I'm only an RN...
WR,,, three commas for Becca
There is no doubt that RN's with years of experience can definitely teach any new MD or PA lots of practical and background information on any subject they are proficient in.
By the way you sound, it seems like I can tell where your feelings are with mid-level practitioners or should I say just PA's. T
There is no doubt that a nurse can teach a new MD or PA alot of practical or background information in the area they are proficient in. There is not one colleague of mine that would say anything to the contrary. The point you make is a valid one, we do depend heavily upon the RN staff for a multitude of things, to say that we are not appreciative of all that you provide would be unjust. I was merely trying to make a point that NP's have benefited from a multitude of factors in their professional development. One, is that they have a powerful nursing lobby that they can draw funds to help support legislation in their favor i.e. better prescriptive priviledges and practicing rights. Is this totally ethical? In the USA what is ethical equivaltes to dollars not common sense. I worked with a NP student who was working with a Patient one time who had CHF, HTN, NIDDM, High Cholesterol and a HX of a previous MI. The patient presented with lab values across the board and was symptomatic, and all that NP student could think of asking that patient is what he had for breakfast, and that he should consider drinking more fruit juice in the morning. This NP student went to one of the best Universities in this country. This University only required ONE YEAR of previous RN experience and only 200 Hours of clinical rotation time during his NP education. I did that in a couple of weeks in just ONE of my rotations out of the multitude that I have had to take.
My point is that we can go all day and night about who we think is better or worse.
The message for the prospective NP or PA student is plain and simple. If you like Primary Care (Family Practice), Pediatrics, or OB/GYN you can recieve a specialized NP degree in one of those disciplines.
If you like Surgery, Emergency Medicine, Cardiac catheterization, Interventional Radiology, and actually any of the ones listed above, PA should be your choice.
My point is that we can go all day and night about who we think is better or worse.
The message for the prospective NP or PA student is plain and simple. If you like Primary Care (Family Practice), Pediatrics, or OB/GYN you can recieve a specialized NP degree in one of those disciplines.
If you like Surgery, Emergency Medicine, Cardiac catheterization, Interventional Radiology, and actually any of the ones listed above, PA should be your choice.
From you other post you said you can see what I think but I don't think you really do know what I think you'd have to read the whole board to get that idea. Why should PA be the "choice" if one likes the above as stated why not be the MD? People (including my parents and spouse) ask why don't I or didn't I go to medical school...answer choice. I like nursing with my BSN...I was doing MSN with NP classes and just really didn't want to do it. I've had offers for management but I don't want that I want the patient care that I have. As in every profession there are good and bad. I work with a NP I can't stand but there are a couple more that I just love and we're not talking personalities I'm talking practice same for nurses, MD's and store cashiers.
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