So, in order for me to get a new drivers license, I have to give my fingerprints.
I'm not too happy about this. I DO NOT think that the government should be able to require this when I haven't committed a crime. It's none of their damn business what my finger prints are.
Sure, you're going to say, "well, if you aren't going to break the law, then don't worry about it".
Well, that is not the point.
The point is, slowly but surely, I'm losing my freedoms.
What about when/if the democrats win the election in novmeber and start passing anti gun legislation? Eventually, it gets to NO GUNS, and then I AM breaking the law.
I still believe that we the people should have the ABILITY to overthrow our own goverment, as was intended by the founders, if we are not happy with the way they are doing things.
This keeps them in check, and keeps them from having absolute power.
No, I'm not a whacko, or a member of the NRA or anything like that. BUT, how else could you do this wihout being armed?
Today, you can't protest against the President when he appears in public. Did you know that? Oh sure, you CAN, just not in the same "location" where he is at. They will find you a nice little spot away from everything/everyone.
Anyway, I'm getting way off base here, but my point is a little here and a little there and the next thing you know we are in freaking Russia.
Personally, I don't want to turn this into a Rep. vs. Dem. issue, as they both have their issues.
Republicans push the Patriot Act, dems want my guns....etc.
Think of this.
Let's say the government passes a law that says it is illegal to drink Coca Cola. Now, you and I realize that there is absolutely nothing wrong with drinking coke, and we will continue to do so....
Well, guess what, the goverment declares Coke drinkers a threat to our country. We "could" be terrorists. My "might" strike up a plot to change things, even using force.
Well, according to the Patriot Act, they could tap your phones. You have OnStar? Then they know where you are. Tehy can even hear your conversations in teh car. Buying something? You'd better scan that barcode on the back of your drivers license. That way we'll know where you've been and what you've been buying. We wouldn't do this, but you're a coke drinker. Ah Ha, you bought sugar at the store! That's a key ingredient in cake mixes! So now we are going to hold you without legal representation because you are suspected of being a terrorist!
See what I mean? A mountain out of a mole hill, BUT, that mountain has to start out small doesn't it? Mountains weren't just mountains overnight were they? In fact, they probably started out the size of a mole hill.
Hey, that brings up something interesting. What the heck kind of a phrase is that anyway? A mountain out of a mole hill? I mean, that's like saying you're making an ice sickle out of a rain drop. Or a snowball out of snow.
Doesn't make sense to me...
Sorry for the rant all. I'm not crazy, just leery of our wonderful government sometimes.
Oh yeah, what happened to what the people want? Nowadays it's, "who cares about the people, VIVA LA PARTY" politics.
I agree with you why do they need finger prints? Non of the politicians are in it for the common man. I don't think any of them know what they are doing and make it up as they go along. Who are the protecting? You think the criminal element will go get their liscense or just drive without one???? maybe in a stolen car. Same with take away the guns then who has them??? criminals. Tax laws who pay? The common person who skips out?? criminals and big wigs with lots of money who hide it elsewhere...you're on the right band wagon.
Aaron you said, "I still believe that we the people should have the ABILITY to overthrow our own goverment, as was intended by the founders, if we are not happy with the way they are doing things. This keeps them in check, and keeps them from having absolute power. No, I'm not a whacko, or a member of the NRA or anything like that. BUT, how else could you do this wihout being armed?."..
If you want to change the government you need to excercise your power through your vote, or organize a campaign and have members of your party run for elected office and initiate change THAT way.
I realize you're hot and bothered about having to be fingerprinted in order to have a driver's license now, but when you speak of advocating violence to change the government you sound like Timothy McVeigh and the like.
Thank God we live in a republic with a constitution that gives us peaceful means of redressing perceived wrongs and not some third world country that suffers coups and armed takeovers every so often.
By the way.. advocating violent overthrow of the US Government is against the law. June 29. 1940: The Smith Act allows the US government to prosecute anyone suspected of advocating violent overthrow of the government.
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If you want to change the government you need to excercise your power through your vote, or organize a campaign and have members of your party run for elected office and initiate change THAT way.
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yeah, that will work...NOT.
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I realize you're hot and bothered about having to be fingerprinted in order to have a driver's license now, but when you speak of advocating violence to change the government you sound like Timothy McVeigh and the like.
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ABSOLUTELY NOT, AND AS AN OKLAHOMAN WHO WITNESSED FIRST HAND HIS DESTRUCTION I TAKE GREAT OFFENSE TO THAT COMMENT!
That is not even remotely close to what I am advocating.
I am some kind of "militia" person just because I don't want to go along with everything MY governement says I should....BAAAAAAAA
Ah hell, I'm done responding. I can't believe you compared me to Timothy McVeigh....
What's wrong with finger prints? You let them take your picture for the license. Prints are just another form of I.D..
I don't think that prints, retina I.D. is a invasion of privacy. This stuff needs to be in the data base to catch bad people who want to hurt others. And I don't think they want our guns. They only want guns in the rite hands. Our government is not Canada, where they registered all weapons then collected them. I do have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. They only want to know what type of weapon you qualified on, not the serial number or module. The state once did but they took it off the requirements.
I just want to know. I have 22 years military in my background (Never was a nurse in the military). Much of it in the Marine Corps. I have been ready to put my life on the line and die for my Country. I just don't understand.
HOW IS FINGER PRINTING TAKING AWAY YOUR RIGHTS. NAME ONE FREEDOM IT HAS TAKEN AWAY, AND HOW IT CHANGED YOUR LIFE.
Aaron it just disturbs me when anyone advocates violent overthrow of our government. Hey, I'm still a commissioned officer under oath to protect and defend this constitution after all.... against enemies foreign and domestic... so... someone proposing taking over the country by force is on the wrong side of my normally sunny disposition shall we say. In your case I'm reasonably sure you don't really mean it...
and like epi said, what's wrong with your prints on file so your driver's license and you actually can be matched up eh? Heck, a lot of us in government service have our prints on file, our panographic dental records and our DNA... it doesn't worry me so why should you feel worried about prints?
I don't think finger prints is taking anything from me but what I don't see is where it's gong to help catch any "bad Guys" as those bad guys just will drive with no liscense. The difference in having prints for a job or security clearance is you choose to have a job that might require prints or clearance (yes have them both) but then I guess it can also be said you choose to drive.
Cassioo I think the poster meant that fingerprinting would catch someone who is already a bad guy. Like a felon who has escaped from prison etc. Yes people could drive without a license but some idiots ( and they are if they have committed a crime and choose to get fingerprinted) would apply and bam they are caught. If a crime is committed and fingerprints are found at the scene and not it a data base then maybe this would be a way to catch them.. Of course, how often do we have to be fingerprinted?? Every time our license is renewed or just once in a lifetime?? So all you teenagers: BE GOOD.. HMMMMMMMM
Sorry a small amount of humor..
And what about all those travel nurses who have "washed off" their fingerprints? Will they have to buy bicycles?
WR,,, three commas for Becca
The name's changed but I will always be WindingRoad
A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and sings it back to you when you have forgotten how it goes.
Banks are starting to use a thumb print system. I wish the day would come where a thumb print would be used for credit card sales, check cashing. we have the tec. at this time. Just need to make it cheaper for consumer use. Identity theft would be harder.
The thumb print is not meant to interfere with your life, it is here to help you. It is your thumb print. STAND up and hold it up proudly and display your thumb.(please note, there is a little satire in what I am saying.)
WOW.... I agree. I don't plan to commit a crime either, but aI don't think they should be able to make us give prints. I agree...they keep witling away at us and soon we won't have any privacy. Where are you that they are making you print for a drivers license?
Mercy,, Driving is a priviledge, not a right, you have to pass a test, albeit an easy one, and not every one is allowed to drive..... well maybe some who shouldn't.
As another poster said your picture is on your license so what's the diff??
And you are much more vulnerable right here on the internet than you would be at the DMV.
JMHO..
WR,,, three commas for Becca
The name's changed but I will always be WindingRoad
A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and sings it back to you when you have forgotten how it goes.
you know after the thumbprint for bank was mentioned I remembered one of the tanning bed places I go to (went Friday as a matter of fact) uses your right thumb to ID you so you can't share tanning time with friends...but I guess that's the choice you have to make if you want to use that tanning salon vs another one. I stick my thumb up there without blinking when they say right thumb.. I don't think they'll be doing anything with that print info but guess you never know they also have my personal information name, address and a credit card number
[ QUOTE ] shortbus said:
So, in order for me to get a new drivers license, I have to give my fingerprints.
I'm not too happy about this. I DO NOT think that the government should be able to require this when I haven't committed a crime. It's none of their damn business what my finger prints are.
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Hello Aaron,
I would support a law requiring every American citizen being fingerprinted and a national database maintained. Driving is a privilege, not a right. They can attach a requirement for fingerprinting (and with identity theft being such are problem, they are smart to) if they want in order for you to have maintain that privilege.
I've had my daughter fingerprinted since she was six months old, to protect her in case she is ever kidnapped or later gets into trouble.
Fingerprints are a major tool in the investigation of criminal activity. There would be a lot less unsolved crime if that were the case.
In New Jersey, before you can work with vulnerable adults, you must submit to fingerprinting and a criminal background check.
If you are a law-abiding citizen, it will never affect you. If you're a criminal, you can no longer hide behind the fact that "you've never been caught." It would be a powerful deterrent.
[ QUOTE ] cassioo said:
I agree with you why do they need finger prints? Non of the politicians are in it for the common man. I don't think any of them know what they are doing and make it up as they go along. Who are the protecting? You think the criminal element will go get their liscense or just drive without one???? maybe in a stolen car. Same with take away the guns then who has them??? criminals. Tax laws who pay? The common person who skips out?? criminals and big wigs with lots of money who hide it elsewhere...you're on the right band wagon.
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That's easy, to catch criminals, prevent illegal aliens or criminals from getting licenses under false names/identities, and to monitor for known criminals with outstanding warrants.
If a criminal moves to another state, he can't just apply for a new license there under a false name without his real identity being discovered.
A rogue parent, can't kidnap their kids and run off to another state, never to be seen again if when they get there they'll need to apply for a license and get fingerprinted.
[ QUOTE ] 1mg.epi said:
What's wrong with finger prints? You let them take your picture for the license. Prints are just another form of I.D..
I don't think that prints, retina I.D. is a invasion of privacy. This stuff needs to be in the data base to catch bad people who want to hurt others.
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I agree and I don't by into any civil liberties arguments that it's a violation of our privacy.
It will help save lives, prevent crimes by getting criminals off the street faster and help find lost children.
[ QUOTE ] shortbus said:It is the principle. A little here, a little there, and soon you have nothing left.
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In my mind, it is a matter of the greater good.
Criminals will no longer be able to apply for drivers licenses under false names, aliases. Ones that have committed crimes and been fingerprinted in the past will be instantly identified and caught.
Sex offenders that relocate to other states and want to drive there, will need to apply for a license.
The streets will be safer with criminals identified. That's well worth giving up a little personal freedom to me.
We are certainly going to have to agree to disagree...
In my mind, I feel like many of our legislators are using 9/11 and terrorism to push through legislation that Americans would normally not allow.
For instance, online gambling. There is no way around it, to be honest. With that being said, I do think that it causes some problems. Athletes, can now get online and bet against their own teams. People can now gamble much more easily, etc.
BUT, the MAIN reasons I have seen for passing this legislation are money laundering, and money for terrorism.
That is total BS. It just sounds good to the general public who doesn't know any better.
If they really want to attack an online business or industry, why don't they try PayPal, or sites like www.rentacoder.com or www.elance.com.
I know for a fact those sites exist in large part to money laundering but you NEVER hear them mentioned...
It's the same thing with the anti gun legislation that Diane Fienstein touts, which will ban automatic shotguns...
I mean, come on! I shoot one, and it holds 5 shells. I use it to quail hunt, and plug it to Dove hunt where it only holds 3 shells...
I know this is a whole different issue, but the principle remains the same.
BTW, I'm giving in and renewing my license today or tomorrow.
Also, I don't buy into the, "Driving is a privledge" theory.
What else is a privledge? What is a right and not a privledge? Is owning a gun a right or a privledge? Is having a child a right or a privledge? Is having sexual intercourse a right or a privledge? Is healthcare a right or a privledge? What about smoking? Wearing tennis shoes?
Oh Aaron.. Driving is a priviledge.. Please if it were a right everyone would be able to drive. And we all know that everyone shouldn't be able to drive.. Do you seriously think that every 16 year old in this country should have a driver's license?? And if you don't then we will need to change the law to 18 and again do you really think every 18 year old should have a driver's license.
JMHO
WR,,, three commas for Becca
Where is a driver's license in the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness???
See VOTING is a right. Black men and women gained the RIGHT to vote, not the privledge. I believe you are privledged to have that right however.
NOW, if you go to prison, you no longer have the RIGHT to vote, or the RIGHT to carry a gun. If you can lose those rights, then they must not be "Rights", right?
When you turn 18, you gain the RIGHT to vote. You can, of course, lose it.
What's the difference?
Why is driving considered a "privledge" and voting is not?
You can say that becuase that's what the law says, but that can be "interpreted" in different ways, (see the second amendment).
A right is something every single human being has a "right" to.. A mentally retarded person has a right to procreate. That's a right. He has a right to an education..Does he have a right to a college education. A right to a PhD. NO those are privledges.. Rights are something we need to live and to be able to take care of ourselves.. Driving is not a right.. It's is earned. I don't have to do anything to vote. I just have to be. I don't have to prove that I am capable of voting just that I am a citizen. But in order to drive I have to earn that privledge.. We give people the "right" to vote Driving has to be earned. And paid for BTW... Our rights don't have to be paid for.
Now your arguement should be that we shouldn't have to pay for the "right" as you call it to drive..
Then it would be a right.
BTW we don't have the pure freedom or right to say whatever we want without reprecussions...Just try yelling fire in a crowded theatre..
WR,,, three commas for Becca
If driving is a right do I have a right to fly if I can afford a plane, do I have a right to drive an 18 wheeler after all I'm just driving the rig...???
And yes you can lose privledges and rights. Voting doesn't require knowledge or proving anything to anyone..Witness the last election in FLA...
BTW Aaron Vermont and Maine are the only two states who allow there prisoners to vote and several other states allow limited voting for their prisoners.
Really? You say he has a right to an education but not college or a PHD? Is that so? If so, who decides when he has had enough education? Who mandates what amount of education he has a right to?
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Rights are something we need to live and to be able to take care of ourselves..
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But you say voting is a right? I certainly don't see how it could be something we need to live and be able to take care of ourselves.
There are plenty of people out there who do not vote, or excersise their RIGHT to vote...
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But in order to drive I have to earn that privledge.. We give people the "right" to vote Driving has to be earned.
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??? What exactly do you do to earn the "privledge" to drive? LIVE for 16 years?
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BTW we don't have the pure freedom or right to say whatever we want without reprecussions...Just try yelling fire in a crowded theatre..
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You DO have the freedom to yell fire in a theatre, but yes, there will be repurcussions. I was never in disagreement on that...
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f driving is a right do I have a right to fly if I can afford a plane, do I have a right to drive an 18 wheeler after all I'm just driving the rig...???
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Sure you do, as long as you are of legal age, and have met the requirements set by law...
No I have earned the privledge to fly...That's the difference.. My mother couldn't back up.. She didn't have a lick of depth preception. She couldn't parellel park and there fore did not earn the privledge to drive.. It was not her right to have a driver's license..
And you have proved my point with your assessment of flying. Flying is no differnet fundamentally than driving. Except it's in the air...
If driving were a right then when every one turns 18 are you saying we should just hand every one in the US a driver's license.. We let them have a voting card. All the have to do is prove they are an American citizen. Should that be the only requirement for a driver's license.
WR,,, three commas for Becca
We have many rights that people don't exercise that doesn't stop them from being rights.. Ice cream will make you fat if I don't eat ice cream I might not get fat..
And yes the right to vote is a right.. The right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. Voting allows us to keep our liberty.
You say you must demonstrate citizenship to be able to vote. Well, you must be able to drive to have a drivers license
well you must be able to pass the test to get a drivers license not all people with a license are able to drive you've seen that yourself. I never had to take a drivers test because I had A's in school and that got me a waiver from my driving test (I can drive) but that's how they did it here in Indiana for years if you did well on your grades in school then all you had to take was the written test (if you also took drivers ed). In KY you don't have to have drivers ed either.
Kind of like nursing you can go to school and get a license if you pass the test but does that make you able to be a good nurse? and we know people who couldn't pass the test but would be good nurses.
No I still said driving is a privledge.. A right is something you are entitled to .. That was the word I have been looking for .. I am old ya know and have brain farts every now and then.. Ok more often than not... Ok every day but that's all I'm gonna admit to...
Kissy Kissy Kissy.. Remember I have kids older than you darlin'
Ok, the hairs are standing up on the back of my head, and I have a clean shaven head!!!!!!!!! All this stuff about rights is a bunch of CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wait till your in the real world for some time then you catch yourself saying, "Who gave that Idiot a licens."
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Also, I don't buy into the, "Driving is a privledge" theory.
What else is a privledge? What is a right and not a privledge? Is owning a gun a right or a privledge? Is having a child a right or a privledge? Is having sexual intercourse a right or a privledge? Is healthcare a right or a privledge? What about smoking? Wearing tennis shoes?
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Driving and owning a gun, Dam right it is a privilege. I have a carry permit for my gun, and I consider it a PRIVILEGE. I sure hope the hell every body does not have the right to carry a gun. There are some very scary people out there. I guess the crack dealer has the right to carry a gun to protect his dealings. I guess the paranoid schizophrenia has the right to carry a gun to protect him from all of us who are going to hurt him. The person that was arrested for child molestation has the right to carry a gun. Once you add on qualifications to show you are responsible, you make it a privilege.
Sexual intercourse, I consider it to be a privilege to have sex. People who think of it as their right, may go and rape. Why not, it is my right to have sex. Are you telling me some one with HIV has the right to have sex. OPPS! Did we just put a place a condition on it. That no longer makes it a right.
The drug addicted couple who have children born addicted to crack has the right (what happened to the child's rights.) Some states have placed conditions on drug addicts, Court ORDERED they can not have more children or face imprisonment. Finally a Judge that has some guts.
Every thing we do that has an effect on others, is a privilege.
What ever some one wants to do in the dark little corner of there home by them selves, is a right.
We can go on and on with this. Privilege vs. Rights. Then you have the people who say,"I have the right to do what I want."
This being said without considerations of an others rights. Watch out too many rights can lead to anarchy.
Now that I am cooled off, I have one more thing to say.
The primary purpose of government is to PROTECT the people. If some perceived rights must be lost for some of the people for the protection of the whole, then that is the duty of the government to do that. Our great government has a good system in place that checks and balance to protect citizens rights. If our government goes to far, there are powerful interest groups( i.e. the ACLU, Can not stand them at all. But, they are what keeps us from going to far.) that challenge the legality of laws passed.
In times like this where we can loose 1/2 of L.A. Ca to a dirty bomb or bio terrorism, a thumb print is insignificant in the total scheme of things. But, good I.D. systems of people in this country are required for PROTECTION in the big picture.
I guess a fingerprint to drive is on the whole less invasive or more of a need to know then a store at the mall that wants you phone number area code first even when you pay with cash so they can target you and your neighboorhood with advertising...555-1212 works for my phone number
In the county where I live the court house is taking everyones records from Civil and criminal court and putting them on a web site that anyone can acess from the privacy of their own home, the same for grant deeds, property taxes, etc. Nurses home address are being advertised to. Feels like I am living in a fish bowel. Anyone can type my name into these places and find out whatever they want. No privacy. Seems like all the things that the Russina Government was accused of have happened to Americans.
