Hi everyone!
I know that you aren't supposed to talk politics or religion, but...the big topic around here lately has been the movie Farenheit 9/11. This is probably as much of a controversial issue on this forum as it is everywhere else, but I really would like to hear opinions from those of you that have seen the film. We are going to see it tonight, so I will let you know what I think after I see it! I think that my parents, die hard republican George Bush supporters might disown me if they find out that hubby and I are going to see this film!
Joe and I used to be <n>really </b>strong supporters of Bush because of (ironically) how he showed such support for the military. We like the pay raises! However, so many things have happened to make me question my support. I really feel that the media can be quite one sided at times and I think my main reason for wanting to see this film is because I would like to see another side of the story. That and of course, the advertisement "Now watch this drive" bothered me like nothing has in quite a long time!
So, what is your take? What did you think of the film? If you have decided that you won't see it, is it because of time contraints or because you are against the film? I'd like to hear everyone's opinion!
As an addendum...I very reluctantly (I hated the guy) watched Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" a while back and he mentioned that Canada provides free health care to everyone. If the US were to implement this, as Moore seems to advocate, how do you think it would affect the nursing profession?
Love him or hate him, he really gives a lot of food for thought!
Michael Moore and health care. Excuse me as I vomit.
My dear sister lives in New Zealand which has socialized med.
Few months ago she had a stroke. Well the dr would not put her on plavix which was indicated for her CVA. The reason was it cost to much. They would not wright the Rx even if she was going to pay out of pocket.
The food they fed her in the hospital was poor quality. Yet, the lady down the hall got good low fat meals, why? The lady down the hall had supplemental insurance.
My sister needed a carotid ultrasound. She had to wait 2 months before getting it. She had to wait her "tern". OK, our standard is 2-3 days if not sooner. She said she would have to wait 6 months to a year for a carendarectomy if she needed one.
I had recovered a lady who was from Engalnd. She had am MI and had a CABG. I recovered her. She told me that she was so happy that she had her MI in the states. She would had to wait her tern to get her CABG.
You know our health care is expensive. Our insurance is expensive. BUT most of the time you get PROPER TREATMENT when it is needed.
Now think how expensive socialized health care would be. Our taxes whoud sky rocket. The increase in your taxes would be quite abit more than you pay for insurance.
In New Zealand Nurses make less than $30,000 a year. At the exchange rate that is less than $18,000 a year. Found on new zealand nursing web site. Now think, you do not work for a company, you work for the government.
I would like to know what the tax rate is in Canada is due to socialezed med. I hear it is great for getting glasses and meds. What if you need cancer tx, or a CABG and what is the quality of care. That I could not say.
And with Michael Moore sure he brings up a lot of questions but he never has answers.
If you complain, and you do not have a viable solution to the problem, you are part of the problem.
Mr. Michael Moore has the right to his say. Of course in the middle east they would have cut off hes head for how he speaks out. It would be nice if he was more constructive and not so disrespectfull.
I hear in Canada it's the same as you mentioned other places you wait for services. My brother lives in Michigan and he's bitching that his $90 med can be had for $10 in Canada so I told him then go to Canada it'd be worth the drive ....or here's a concept get a job with some insurance and pay less then $90....and he is capable he has a Master's degeree (ok he is on workman's comp right now for falling off a ladder at work and twisting his knee and he's been waiting in MI for almost a year to fix that but first couldn't get cardiac clearance then had to have get that fixed then was in pre-op for the knee and had himself so worked up they couldn't get his b/p down) He's in theater too so he has NO clue how the medical system really does work and was upset about having to get pre-op labs, cardiac clearance etc...he's making me nuts blames the nurse worknig for the insurance company, blanes the insurance, blames workman's comp, blames the theater.
Thanks 1mg and Cassioo for your replies. We just came in from watching the film. 1mg, I guess we are all entitled to our opinions, and I certainly respect yours. I thought pretty much the same thing about Moore not that long ago. But I have come to realize that he isn't unpatriotic like some of the media portray. He's just a man that wants answers to some questions, and he has every right to ask them...just as everyone has the ability to disagree with him. I, however, don't disagree. I really don't want to discuss this film tonight, because after watching it, I felt like I had ran a 3 day marathon. It wasn't a bunch of opinions interlaced with facts like "Bowling for Columbine". It was fact after fact, after fact. I really encourage all of you to see it, if for no other reason so that you can make your own decisions about it. I always like to have both sides of the story.
Thanks for your input on the healthcare system in Canada!
I haven't seen the movie.. But I will say this. My son is a Marine..8 years. And I am a pacifist. And the one thing I am proud of him is the fact that he says he will fight for my right to be a pacifist. Now that's what our young men and woman should be fighting for.. Our rights to be, think, and say what we want..
And I am a pacifist. And the one thing I am proud of him is the fact that he says he will fight for my right to be a pacifist. Now that's what our young men and woman should be fighting for.. Our rights to be, think, and say what we want..
sounds like my husband. Retired after 20 years USAF. Says he might not agree with you but will defend your right to think what you do.
Now that's a true hero.. And I would "defend" his right to feel, think, and do what he thinks is right. I wouldn't kill someone for him but I have my ways.. ))
Wandering and Cassioo, I think that is just about what any person that has ever served will say, as they should. A lot of people don't like my opinions. Maybe that is why I served in the military...I have always been an opinionated person, just ask my parents! They probably had enough of me about 20 years ago and I'm only in my mid twenties. My husband is one of the most opinionated people that I have ever met. He asks more questions than anyone I know and always has something to say about the answer! He will be glad to tell you that he has earned that right and he has made sure that others have it as well.
I guess I will talk about the film now, since I started the topic. Last night, I was just too exhausted. I was really shocked by the amount of facts and lack of commentary by Moore in the film. If you've seen some of his other work, you know he often likes to put in his thoughts. This one really just showed the facts. I talked with my Mother about the movie tonight and she refuses to see it because she is convinved that it is one sided. And it may be, but I find that hard to believe when the facts can be backed up. I find it very disturbing that the Saudi's have personally given the Bush family 1.4 Billion dollars over the past 30 years. It really bothers me that we did not question the 142 members of the Ben Ladin family that were in the US during the attacks and that we had them flown to Saudi on 9/13 without any questions. This just bothers me. A lot of the things bothered me. Now, don't label me a bleeding heart liberal that just wants Bush gone. That is NOT the case at all. I want honest answers. I want straight answers. Honestly, I feel like this is the first thing that I have seen to come close to giving me those answers. I realize that there are some things that we as citizens don't need to know and therefore, the government can't give us any answers on some things, but the things that were shown on this film were extremely disturbing and I think that we deserve a better reply than "It's all liberal propoganda" But that's just me. I'd like to hear from other's than have seen the film that DID NOT like it and DISAGREE with it. It's always nice to hear more opinions, so if anyone has seen it, please pitch in!
Kristy
I wouldn't mind seeing it but I think I'd take it like the news you see what they want to show you.
Honesty and politics...I think the closest that has ever been is Jimmy Carter and being too nice didn't work well for him either.
You know, back in the 60's I was a hipppy. Spent a few times in jail for protesting. I was actually arrested on a army base protesting well 20 years later I was a Officer being trained on this base. I have seen both sides of war and peace. I love peace. Nobody likes to fight, but some one has to. I am a pacifist, but also a strong conservative.
One thing I cant stand is someone who does not have an opinion on Imortant issues. I work with people who do not have a clue what is going on in the world. That is what is neet about this site, we all have opinions.
My opinion of the movie is that i hate it. I am a strong Bush supporter.President Bush has done wonderful things for this country, he has control of one of the most horrible and feared man in the world (saddam). He has made America a safer place, and he his still working on making it even safer. It really bothers me when people say "I didn't realize that he played golf so much, it showed him playing golf so much in the movie" Well did you ever stop to think that maybe during his time as president he played golf 10 times and they caught all 10 of those times on camera and put it in that movie. Who cares if he plays golf anyway, he deserves some free time anyway. I think that he is a great president, and I hope he gets elected again. Does any one agree with me on this one?
I think that I some one can not have some free time to relax. Every one deserves some free time and time to self. That stinks. I would care if bush played golf 20 time a year. He is doing his job, and a darn good job at that. Michael Mooron is such a jerk. The hollywood self-endulge super egos are about the only ones that like him.
I'm not a huge Bush supporter. I am a republican, but I only look at individual issues. I have no party loyalty and won't blindly side with the party I am affiliated with.
I have some democratic tendencies but I would consider myself pretty far to the right.
I believe that Mikey Moore has absolutely NO CLUE based on his opinions and not on my support of Bush.
Hey now Mr. Epi, I don't think that everyone that agrees with Moore are "hollywood self-indulged super egos". My husband and I are pretty far from Hollywood as you can get, but we appreciate the fact that someone at least takes the time to ask questions. I feel like it is our responsibility to ask questions, if not then anyone could get away with anything. If you and I and everyone else here are paying all of those politician's salaries (and our own too for those military families, if you want to get technicals)when we pay taxes, then there is nothing wrong with asking questions. I do not think that Bush is a bad man. I think that a lot of times he does what he thinks is the right thing to do, which is all that we can ask, but I don't think that he is the best man for the job anymore. Honestly, I don't understand how anyone can sit through the movie and not see a single valid point. It's not a political debate show where people are spouting off their opinions, it's facts that are laced together to show a side of Bush that we have not seen before. I won't ever agree completely with what anyone says about one politician or another, because I think that most political news shows or movies, etc are usually from a biased person. I found it QUITE comical in the movie though when Moore went to DC to try to get politicians to enlist their kids in the military and they looked at him as if he were nuts. Yet they don't mind sending everyone else to war. I couldn't believe that the Patriot Act was enacted and voted in when some of the people that voted for it flat out said that they did not read the entire bill. I understand that is the way that it sometimes works, but that is not how it was intented to work. How can we vote for laws/acts/wars if we don't fully read the text? I just don't understand this.
There will never be a perfect candidate as far as I am concerned. I'm liberal on some issues, but I'm conservative on a lot more. My two main things that I am liberal on are abortion and stem cell research. I don't think abortion is right, but I think it's a choice that I can't make for someone else. I think stem cell research could greatly benefit a lot of people around the world, here in America. And while I really do feel terrible that women (and everyone else for that matter) have to live under harsh regimes in the Middle East, I can't understand why we are so concerned with them, but we have people starving here in America. Just doesn't make sense.
But it's ok to rant Epi, I guess I am doing it too...thank God for free speech!
I remember vividly when the towers fell. I was just glad ( at the time) that Bush "knew" where they were..Remember the last election he hardly knew any foreign leaders..
Now, now WR. That was a low blow, even if I'm not his biggest supporter! But I did think your "That's my opinion and I approved of this post" was quite funny. If I have to hear someone approve a message again, I will scream!
OK Kristy you'r right, and trust me it does not hurt me to say that. . Questions must be asked. I have seen too many people with their beliefs shattered. Just look at those in the twin towers on 9/11, how safe they felt that day going to work.
I know I am a hard liner, but I look at history and see how events can repeat themselves.
Now one thing I want to get straight I am not against people who question. That is what helps look at events in different light. Questioning those we vote for is what makes a democratic system so great. Michael Moore does ask very important questions. I CAN'T STAND HIM personally, he is very rude to the office of the PRESIDENCY, he has no respect to the country that gives him the right to free speech.
You do not have to like Bush, but respect the office. R. Regan wore a suite coat in the oval office. Nancy asked hem to take it off one day. His reply was, This is the office of the president, I should be dressed with the respect the office deserves. Not the respect for him but the office.
That is the quality Michael Moore lacks is RESPECT.
And I must agree with shortbus about Mickey aint got no clue ,not on my oppinion of GWB.
1mg.epi.. I don't have a particular opinion on Reagan. But I will tell you that wearing a suit doesn't mean you respect anything.. Some people who wear suits don't have as much respect for the office of the President of this country that I have in my little finger..
Please don't judge a book by it's cover,, negatively or positively..
JMHO....
WR,,, three commas for Becca
P.S. The heros of 9/11 were those who SAVED lives.. i.e everyday people, firefighters, police. ETC.. I remember how scared I was that day. How afraid I was that if we retailiated it would make things worse. I don't want to see a Hatfield/McCoy or Northern Ireland scenario...
Thanks for letting me say my thoughts.. I appreciate yours too..That's what will keep us free....
WR no offense but, you don't get it. I was not judging a book by its cover, but the way you dress in certon situations can show respect or disrespect. I was just giving an example of respect for the office of the presidency when I used Reagan.
[ QUOTE ]
You do not have to like Bush, but respect the office. R. Regan wore a suite coat in the oval office. Nancy asked hem to take it off one day. His reply was, This is the office of the president, I should be dressed with the respect the office deserves. Not the respect for him but the office.
[/ QUOTE ]
You can't say it much better than that.
It's like going to a funeral in a tank top and cutt off jean shorts with flip flops...you simply don't do it.
It doesn't matter if you like the person or not, its about respect.
I think society on a whole needs a complete lesson on respect. Why do I thank the cashier at a store or drive through when they should thank me? (ok that should go both ways but they should talk to their co-workers while waiting on me I thanked my nurses when they gave me a shot in the butt. There is a lot or respect lacking all over with cut offs and tank tops at weddings and funerals, cussing in public, on the phone, on elevators just a bunch of rude people running around.
Did any of you see M.M. on fox news? I got so mad when he asked bill O'rilley if he would send his child to war. Bill answered yes. I would not send my children to war!!!!!!
WE DO NOT SEND OUR CHILDREN TO WAR!!!!!!!!!!
They enlist in the military on their own. We do not take them to the enduction center and tell them they have to go to war. There is no draft. They do have some free will in the matter
Some of our children have a sense of duty to country. Some times it may be misguided, but they want to serve in some respect.
Michael Moore could not get into the military if he wanted to. The military has some class
My son just turned 18 on 7/30. He got his selective service notice and I told him he needed to get that filled out and turned in. He got mouthy about not going to do it but it turns out he'd already done it and just needed something to argue with me about
As some of you know my DH is retired USAF (20 years), served in Vietnam, Desert Storm & Shield. He might not like what you say but was there to defend your right to say so.
I'm not "for war" myself I don't know anyone that really "wants" war and maybe some of the reasons are misguided I DON"T KNOW.
But the "soldiers" I don't agree with are the ones that signed on to get their education then when called now they don't want to go. Well, part of the agreement was to go when called in trade for the education.
I don't want to take care of the 300# woman with twins that I had all weekend (nice as she could be but next to impossible to monitor) but when I signed on I agreed to take care of pregnant women that come my way...that's my job and I'm stickn' to it.
Hi everyone... I'm a Vet, AND a fairly comfortable republican, and I totally support my Commander in Chief.
As for Mr. Moore, I feel that while he is entitled to his opinion, as are we all, he is sadly a misguided man. I urge all of you to go to http://www.scaryjohnkerry.com/moore.htm and check out the video.
Tracey I'm sorry Bush's new OT law didn't affect you..But I bet if you ask him pretty please he could include you the next time.. If there is a next time.
The Bush family has served this nation with honor for decades... that has to count for something. I dare you to find fault with Bush Sr's record... Do you have the guts or stamina it takes to serve the way he did? As for his sons, Jeb and George W., how proud a father could there be?
Jeb governs the state that I live in, and has done a tremendous job. George W. is the prez, and will continue that job for the next term.
We have to be realistic... bleeding hearts are a drain on everyones pocket book.
Give 'til it hurts, but CYA, and your family first!!!
Well... I will not be forced to work OT! I mean, I do a lot of it anyway, but if someone tells me I have to... well, there are travel gigs in Australia, and I have connections
))
. Questions must be asked. I have seen too many people with their beliefs shattered. Just look at those in the twin towers on 9/11, how safe they felt that day going to work. 