This question has come up recently, and frankly I wouldn't practice without a policy. It's very cheap peace of mind. Think my policy costs me like $94 per year.
If a lawsuit happens, the hospital's attorneys will be looking out for the hospital's interests. I know that if I've got my own insurance, they'll be looking out for my interests to make sure I don't get hung out to dry.
I've seen too many times where a nurse will testify for a hospital, do everything in his/her power to protect their employers. Then when the suit is over the hospital has turned around and sued the nurse individually to recover their losses.
When you look at the 1 million/six million dollar policies we carry, they are small change compared the hospital's "deep pockets." They'll sue you as an employee of the hospital to get money from the hospital. Suing a nurse individually wouldn't be worth anyone's time.
Do you carry a personal malpractice insurance policy why or why not: Yes The reason I do is because I used to work in a Drs. office without any benefits
Yes I do and always have...this past week I was at a conference, the speaker was an expert witness and she said don't carry you're own insurance but I'm still keeping it.
I did for years. Last year was the first year that I dropped it.Then I went to a nurse law conference, they said not to carry it. It is called the deep pocket theory.
That's just what we were told in the conference I was at but I'm still not sure I shouldn't have it. I would hate to have to come up with something out of my pocket which is pretty much not too deep and mostly empty
The "deep pocket" theory basically says, if you a nurse has a million dollars worth of insurance, they'll come after you if they think they can get the insurance company to pay something. Vs. not having a policy where all they can hope to recover are your personal assets.
Either way, you'll need to hire an attorney to represent you.
For $94 I'd carry it just to avoid paying a lawyer $5,000 - $10,000 out of pocket to start if a lawsuit was brought against me. That's what you'd pay just to have the attorney look over your case and represent you in the depositions.
Being sued aside, my policy also covers me for good samaritan (off duty) actions, paying an attorney to represent me before the state board, etc.
It's peace of mind from lawsuits and complaints. Anytime you're sued, you need to hire a lawyer whether it is a legitimate case or not. This protects me from being harassed by frivolous lawsuits and complaints as well.
I have a Pre-Paid legal business where if I need a lawyer for any reason, including nursing, they are just a phone call away. And it's very affordable. My membership also includes ID Theft Protection! So I don't have to worry about being sued. If anybody is interested in making extra cash or need some protection, leave your name and number at
I have pretty shallow pockets We just started the pre-paid legal plan here as part of out benefits. I am not sure what all it covers. But, you know, malpractice insurance is not that expensive. It is cheaper than a retainer payment to a attorney. OK this thread just made me think of getting my malpractice insurance back.
[ QUOTE ] LeahNTexas said:
I have a Pre-Paid legal business where if I need a lawyer for any reason, including nursing, they are just a phone call away. And it's very affordable. My membership also includes ID Theft Protection! So I don't have to worry about being sued. If anybody is interested in making extra cash or need some protection, leave your name and number at
LeahLogan1995@yahoo.com
[/ QUOTE ]
Leah,
#1. This forums is inappropriate for advertising business opportunties, ways to make money, etc. You're welcome to post those types of messages either in the spam forum, or nurse entrepreneur section.
#2. Keep it accurate. Prepaid legal gives unlimited phone advice. If you need them to actually represent you, you'll pay a hefty retainer and several hundred/hour fee just like any you would any to attorney. I have prepaid legal and have looked into having them represent me here in New Jersey.
I have been a nurse for 35 yrs and have never carried malpractice insurance.
I was told by a physician yrs ago that they can't take your house or car and that is all I have. Also they would not take the time or money to sue you if they knew you didn't have insurance. Insurance makes them more likely to come after you if they can't get it from the hospital or doctor.
I used to carry individual malpractice insurance, but was advised by the hospital risk management not to do so. Again, the "deep pocket" theory came up. Now, I don't really know what is the right thing to do. I know I haven't really anything that can be taken. My house and car are mine and can't be taken, and I haven't anything besides that. If I get the policy, then they have something to go after. If I don't get the policy, they have nothing. If getting a policy guarantees me at least the cost of the lawyer is covered then it might be worth my measly $100.00.
And who exactly says your house, car and life savings can't be taken if you're sued? Who says your wages cannot be "garnished" till you're ready to collect Social Security.
When a lawsuit happens and you run up $20,000 in attorney's fees because the hospital doesn't have to/won't pay to defend you, the money's going to have to come from someplace.
If a hospital is going to get sued, they'll name you as an employee to get to the hospital whether you have personal insurance or not.
I'd rather have my own interests represented by my own attorney fighting for my malpractice insurance company, than the hospital's that could care less if I'm hung out to dry.
For $100 or so per year, it's worth it for the peace of mind.
I do not want to take part in the "Deep Pockets Theory. I do not carry malpractice insurance as a paramedic (11 yrs old) nor do I plan to carry it as an RN (1 yr old). All my assets are (or will be) tranferred into Living Trust accounts or into my hubbys name (no fear there - extremely long-term committed relationship/marriage).
Think I can safely speak for all of us that I hope being on the receiving end of lawsuit is something I'll never need to deal with.
With it being a definite possibility as a healthcare professional in a sue-happy world, like having car insurance where it isn't required by law, I'd buy it just to have the peace of mind.
Most policies will protect you before the state board of nursing, for acts as a good samaritan, first aid responder, etc as well as for formal malpractice lawsuits. For the $98/year it costs me, it is well worth it.
Yes. The immediate reason is that my school required everyone to get malpractice insurance. Now I realize that I just would not want to be caught without it. I am in California and I have a feeling that we have a few more sue-happy nutballs in this state than the rest of the United States. I just never know if I would run into them. And, God forbid, if I ever make a mistake, well.... with insurance, maybe I'll have a second chance at rebuilding my life.
Another thing to remember is if you are volunteering your services outside of the hospital, (at church doing blood pressure screening, assisting at Health Fairs) you might want to get that malpractice insurance. From what I've been told, the hospital insurance won't cover those activities.
Yep, right you are Liz. Volunteer activies are usually not covered by employer policies.
Most employer's policies only cover you at work and while you are employed. Meaning if your changed jobs, and a year later a lawsuit was initiated, you wouldn't be covered by the hospital's insurance anymore.
Most malpractice policies for nurses are "occurrence" based, meaning you're covered for the policy period, even if the lawsuit isn't initiated for years later.
Considering you'll be named in most lawsuits so that they can get to your employer's deep pockets, I sleep better knowing I'm covered.
If you own a home, or have any other assest that amounts to anything & you are involved in a lawsuit and loose, a judgement could be filed and liens could be placed on your home and other personal property to satisify the judgement. If you have malpractice coverage the policy will provide you with free advice from attorneys.
[ QUOTE ] MedicRN said:
I do not want to take part in the "Deep Pockets Theory. I do not carry malpractice insurance as a paramedic (11 yrs old) nor do I plan to carry it as an RN (1 yr old). All my assets are (or will be) tranferred into Living Trust accounts or into my hubbys name (no fear there - extremely long-term committed relationship/marriage).
[/ QUOTE ]
So you were sued and when they went looking for money you say:
You don't have any assets, and you don't ever plan on working again? If that's the case fine.
If not, and you have to work, you can plan on having money deducted from every paycheck, disability check and social security check you ever get from now till you die, till a judgment is satisfied.
Hate to burst your bubble on marriage, but six out of ten end up in divorce. You'd be extremely lucky to have it last a lifetime.
Hi. I'm new here. Just a comment. I work with an LVN who was sued straight out of school. She made an error that consisted of not catching the Dr.'s error in his order. 2 other RN's and 2 LVN's both missed it before she did. All the nurses were sued. All had to plead guilty to the charges as they didn't have the money to fight it. Nothing happened to the Doctor, of course. All three nurses are on probation. I mean criminal probation. Theyeport to a probation officer and everything just like common criminals. They each owe $5000 to their lawyers and $5000 for a fine and none of them are being allowed to work anywhere else than where they are for 3 years. None of them had insurance and now they are not able to get it. I think that just watching this junk happen makes me think I want this insurance.
Could you site the docket number of that case so I can read it?
WR,,, three commas for Becca
I don't believe malpractice insurance would protect them from criminal charges. BTW what are those criminal charges. And why were they even able to keep their licenses to work anywhere?
The Good Samaritian Law already covers you. That's why it was instituted.
WR,,, three commas for Becca
I took care of a lady in the hospital several years ago who sued the surgeon, and anesthesia. I was her nurse for over 6 weeks. The hospital let her stay so long as a gesture hoping she wouldn't sue. I carry no malpractice insurance. No one ever asked me one question. I was never deposed. I took care of the woman later on in the dialysis unit. She and I joked that we had bonded when she was in the hospital. One nurse who took care of her for a couple of days was deposed. Her notes were as good as mine. The difference was she had malpractice insurance. And I would have testified for the surgeon and anesthesia. I believe the patient brought her problems on her self. When she finally went to court she told me she got some money. I believe she got money because the surgeon and anesthesia had insurance. No nurse was implicated but several were deposed. I don't believe the patient deserved money but I believe the insurance companies didn't put up much of a fight either. I don't know how much she got. I don't believe it was much. But the docs,and nurses suffered just for being deposed. While I sat pretty and kept my $94.
BTW it's only $94 a year becuase the insurance companies know nurses are a low risk. But they'll take $94 a year vs. nothing. And anyone who hard sells me something has a reason to..I don't like their scare tactics for one thing. Just a thought.
It is not my case, so no. I don't have a docket number. I don't know all of the details, either. I only know that none of these nurses had insurance and cited that as the reason they pled guilty instead of fought the charges. BTW, one of them was in RN school when it went to court and may not be allowed to take the bords OR if she is allowed to take the boards, may not be allowed to be licensed as an RN until the probation time is over. She doesn't know what is going to happen, yet.
If you have insurance do not announce it. There are people that deliberately set nurses and doctors up just to sue them. They will put some one in a nursing home and antagonize a nurse untill they do goof up and then sue. These are desperate people and this is how they plan on getting rich. They cry any thing from predjudice to incompetence. and they are willing to let the person get hurt just to collect that fat check. So if you have insurance don't let it be Known.
I do, and will con't to. Sure the hospital will protect you if you did not stray one iota from policy, but if you did... they may not be able to "take" your house, but they can put a lien on it so that if you ever want to sell it all the proceeds would go to whomever sued you. A friend of my family was sued, I dont know the specifics of the events, but I do know that she has to pay out of pocket. Like was said before, my pockets are rather shallow. What little is in them, I'd like to keep!
1mg.epi wrote:I did for years. Last year was the first year that I dropped it.Then I went to a nurse law conference, they said not to carry it. It is called the deep pocket theory.
I don't know about that...I'm certainly reaping the benefits of liability insurance right now.
Recently being involved in a legal fiasco, I was happy to pay less than $100/yr for insurance compared to how much I would be paying my lawyer if I don't have one.
I've carried a policy since I was a student nurse (required then for enrollment).
If and when I should ever be sued, I sleep tight at night knowing that my malpractice insurance company has a million dollars set aside to defend me, and watch my back.
Like car insurance, it's something I gladly pay for and hope I'll never need.
I currently do not carry it. This is a personal decision of my own.
Sadly, attornies know very well we are carrying it and this is why we are getting sued more these days. I choose not to attract lawsuits to the profession.
But that's just my opinion and decision; others feel differently about the issue. :)
I absolutely believe in nurses carrying personal liability insurance regardless of their area of practice. As Andrew and some others have already mentioned the cost per year is so tiny that its completely insignificant for starters, but the peace of mind it buys is priceless.
We live in a litigation happy day & age and it would be negligent thinking to "assume" that a nurse won't be included in a suit brought against a health care facility or along with doctors "because everyone knows nurses don't have as much net worth" as those with "deep pockets". That's nuts in these days when nurses are well educated and have the potential in many cases of earning in excess of $100k per year and more if they do agency work as well.
In addition to being sued under the doctrine of respondeat superior in which case your employer's umbrella policy would be the first line of defence, a nurse can also be sued personally in addition!
In the first instance I would not trust the employer to fight hard to defend my innocence and good name, but rather I would expect that if they had ANY thought that the plaintiff might have a vaiable claim they would offer to settle to save costs- which would make me seem to look guilty!
That brings us to the second instance-- if my employer settled and I looked guilty I could kiss my assets goodbye in a civil case brought against me individually unless I have my own liability insurance.
Whoever told any of you that a plaintiff could not touch your house or car? That's wrong---- they can slap a lien against the house and get your equity as soon as you ever try to sell it, and they can attach every other asset or wage you or your spouse have or earn until the judgment is satisfied.
You could spend the rest of your working days working --- for nothing.
All because you wanted to save $100 a year or less?
I don't know about you, but the median house value in the US is approximately $230,000 at this time, and most of us probably have some retirement plan or savings in addition to other assets.
Is the price of insurance so high that you would be willing to avoid paying it and put everything at risk instead? For well educated people-- that's just not very smart is it?
For more on Nursing Legal Issues, including Good Samaritan Statues, and The Nurse's Malpractice Primer please visit the Nursing Law section of Medi-Smart http://medi-smart.com/law.htm
This is a personal decision for nurses to make. Many nurses feel it is peace of mind in today's hectic environment of care; inevitable mistakes will be made and they want the harmed patient to be compensated.
I have struggled with these sentiments myself, but have decided not to carry it; only because I know that the more of us carry it, the more lawyers will sue us for it. I've never been involved in a lawsuit in my 29 yrs in this game, and am diligent in involving the 'higherups' in any problem that occurs so the facility cannot easily blame me alone. I'm also very careful to follow policy...because this is how facilities can single out a nurse for blame in a suit.
Every nurse has to hash out his/her feelings on this issue and like I said, its a personal decision.
I've had malpractice insurance ever since I went into nursing because I was advised to take it. You all have posted sound arguments here both for and against so I've actually considered letting it go. Maybe I'm paraniod, but I've decided that regardless or the fact that I consider myself a conscientious nurse, I practice in a career that is susceptable to lawsuits- thanks, Jim Sokolove and for as long as I continue to do so, I feel better protected while having it.
In my research I read the deep pocket theory is a myth. The only way they can find out about your coverage is if you tell them.
Maybe there are illegal ways for them to find out or unethical ways...don't know
Regardless a person can end up with a major judgement against them which goes on your 3 credit reports. I've also read in the past that judgements can be renewed before the fall off time of 7-10 years <forgot> but usuualy aren't.
Not a credit or liabilty attorney here but from all I've read it's better to carry liabilty coverage than not to carry it especially due to it's low cost to high benefit ratio and the fact that it can save your license without which You can not work.
I know NSO covers actions against any USA BON as well as lawsuits
Worldwide coverage as long as lawsuit is in US or Territories.
I've read the website details of some of the other Liability coverages for nurses but they seem unclear if they do the same.
I reccomend all nurses carry coverage especially Travel Nurses because of the multiple diverse workplaces and moving from company to company at times.
