U.S. Citizens Being Replaced..........

Up to 20% of new nurses will be imported from oversea.... :( http://ofw.balita.ph/html/article.php/20061028184945591

Whoa, this is crazy. They are all legal so there is nothing stopping them. Because of the US shortage of Nurses.

Yeah this is crazy. What would be really great is if the professional nursing community (at the ivory tower level) would finally imbrace LPNs / LVNs to assist the professional nurse in care of patients. There are nearly 1,000,000 LPNs / LVNs in the U.S. Over the past twenty years or so, RNs have allowed hospitals to replace the LPN / LVN with Unlicensed Assistive Personnel and now we're allowing nurses to be imported to ease a false shortage.

IT'S TIME TO GO BACK TO TEAM NURSING!!!!! http://forums.ultimatenurse.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
:rolleyes:

IMHO I am all for anything that will get more qualified staff into the hospital. The key concept here is qualified. My last full time hospital imported 12 nurses from out of country and I dare say only 2 or three were really qualified to be called an RN. Not only were they dangerous but they had language issues, worked for less pay and would band together into their own little psuedo-union when things did not go their way. I am afraid that this is just the beginning of what is to come.

After we were leased in 1992, our ICU contract nurses were replaced by 7 RN's from the UK. These nurses were paid $12.00/hr and each given an apartment. They were in seventh heaven!!!! Two were reliable, five were absolutely useless!!!!! We were actually afraid to assign a realy sick patient to them.

I dont understand why they are doing this. Do they pay foreign nurses less? Is it cheaper for the hosp? Do foreign nurses have to take the NCLEX? I am currently in an LVN prog...I tried to get into an RN prog for 2.5 yrs. And did not succeed which is why I am now in an LVN prog. I dont understand why they dont put more money into getting us through RN prog rather then importing foreign nurses. I think its absolutly ridiculous! I realize that there is a shortage but they are so many people who want to become nurses but get discouraged bc of the wait to get into the prog.
Ashley

Ashley Anne wrote:I dont understand why they are doing this. Do they pay foreign nurses less? Is it cheaper for the hosp? Do foreign nurses have to take the NCLEX? I am currently in an LVN prog...I tried to get into an RN prog for 2.5 yrs. And did not succeed which is why I am now in an LVN prog. I dont understand why they dont put more money into getting us through RN prog rather then importing foreign nurses. I think its absolutly ridiculous! I realize that there is a shortage but they are so many people who want to become nurses but get discouraged bc of the wait to get into the prog.
Ashley

Ashley, part of the problem is the lack of teachers. Many would rather work the floor than work for lesser money as a teacher. :39:

And yes, foreign nurses DO have to take NCLEX, and go through other hurdles to obtain licensure in the US.

'Cat'

Hey, lets face the facts.

Nursing simply isn't that attractive any more once you know what's involved.

Nurses are usually the first to complain about how awful their working conditions are. Not exactly a turn-on to potential nursing students.

Nursing faculty are at retirement age and will be leaving soon, there aren't many staff nurses going into teaching (involves bout a 33% pay cut).

Not many students are going to sit on a waiting list for 2-3 years to get into a nursing program.

New graduate nurses are getting thrown to the wolves and leaving within the first six months, swearing never to come back.

****************

And we wonder why hospitals are paying "BIG BUCKS" to bring in foreign nurses?

It's not too hard to figure out.

Sincerely,

Andrew Lopez, RN
Nursefriendly, Inc. A New Jersey Corporation.
38 Tattersall Drive, Mantua New Jersey 08051
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Incidentally, I don't hold a grudge against foreign nurses. They're looking for an honest day's work for decent pay. That isn't available in their countries.

I wouldn't be too thrilled about leaving my home and family for some far off land with a less than friendly working environment.

The bulk of the "BIG BUCKS" goes to recruiters and immigration lawyers, not the nurses themselves.

My main pet peeve with foreign nurses is the language barrier. If you're coming to work here, you should be fluent in ENGLISH. I don't think the standards for the language testing are high enough.

It's a major safety issue when the nurse you're talking to nods their head, but really has no idea what you meant.

Off my soapbox now.

Sincerely,

Andrew Lopez, RN
Nursefriendly, Inc. A New Jersey Corporation.
38 Tattersall Drive, Mantua New Jersey 08051
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856-415-9617, (fax) 415-9618

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The shortage of nurses in the US is because of us baby boomers who are either retiring or we have decided to specialize in a particular area other than an acute care setting. In addition, we have decided to detour teaching because the pay is so limited or we don't want to have loans hanging over our heads as we near retirement. We need more reform. Register to vote and write your congressmen!

How much less do the teachers make than those that work on the floor. Why doesn't the government just increase their pay?.....the US already spends so much. Why don't they just deduct the cost from some other area? Are these foreign nurses being paid less than American ones?

lorianncw wrote:How much less do the teachers make than those that work on the floor. Why doesn't the government just increase their pay?.....the US already spends so much. Why don't they just deduct the cost from some other area? Are these foreign nurses being paid less than American ones?

Schools are mainly run on taxes and tuition. Those who go to private schools tend to pay more tuition-wise(oh, do I know!)

To be honest, cutting costs from other areas isn't a good idea; the local grade school did that years ago, and they still haven't 'recovered' from it.

'Cat'

:) Hello All


Foregin RNs are not paid less If they are not sponsored by your Hospital.
They are being encouraged to enter USA for "better" life.The truth is ; they have misreable live here from the time of entry. We wander why they don't go back? Well , its not so simple , first they have to pay a lot of money to get Passport back If Agency is involved, those who have family at least don't worry about Passport and food. I am absolutely sure that [B]Non [/B]of those RNs would come in here If they knew what kind of live is coming their way and what they are expected to do for the "Wonderfull life in USA".

I know Philipino, Hindu, Korean , Mexican and European RNs they are not that diffrent from you , the only diffrence is accent and strong bound with family.
I expect from all of you a lot of " NO NO NO " is not true,
My opinion is based on many years of working with them and for them.
It takes a long time to get know them ,their Culture,and Values.
You blame Foregin Rns for everything ; Accent. Culture, sticking together taking your job
!!! Why don't you try to teach them what are your Values, Culture, and American way of working together...
Instead of blaming foregin RNs for taking your job stop and think why you don't want this job and what we can do to change it.
Long time ago One of the " FOREGIN RN " said ... why don't you write a book about present sytuaction in Nursing... and [B]us Foregine RNs
in USA,, Why ??? I asked ?? because it doesn,t matter what you think or know You are here to do what " Citizens" don,t want to do....[/B]
If don't like it you are free to go back....... in mean time learn as much as you can ,stay together and keep smiling even If you don't feel like..

Have you ever heard Doctors talking about Foregin Doctors ???? I haven't !!!

Xana

My experience with the recent influx of RNs from India has been that they are very hard working, complain little, knowledge of nursing skills is fair once they become accustomed to our equipment and methods, and are eager to learn. The only drawback that I have seen - and it's a HUGE one - is the communication skills. The lack of communication can be dangerous in a hospital setting.

As far as foreign nurses "taking our jobs," well, there is plenty of work to go around. We are still having problems filling the schedule.

They pay they are receiving is comparable to what other staff RNs are being paid so that rumor needs to be put to rest.

I just read an article that confirms that many foreign nurses do in fact receive reduced salaries. If so, the recruiters, hospital administrators, and government would have a huge incentive to hire a lower cost foreign nurse over an American nurse. Greed causes them to care most about the bottom line....not patient care.

This trend is in line with how our government and big business owners have been handling so many other industries....replace American workers with illegal or foreign workers at half the cost and double your profits. If you review the thread "Could This Lead to Socialized Medicine", I think you'd agree that these trends are only going to get worse.... The whole point of Bush's SPP and the "North American Union" is to merge the US with Mexico and Canada. Why?...so that we can "expand" our migrant worker programs and reduce costs even more for big business in the US and those that manufacture their products in China. For example, almost all imports from China go through the Long Beach , CA port. The American union workers their make $40 to $50 per hours. Then the goods are transported by US truck drivers. Many of these Americans will soon have their jobs replaced by Mexicans. With the passage of the SPP, imports will instead enter a Mexican port (owned by China) and manned by Mexicans for only about $2/hr. Then the goods will be transported by Mexican truck drivers into the US. Not only does this deal jepordize American jobs, but also Americans safety on the highways, and national security.

First immigrants worked in the farm fields, now it has expanded to the meat industry, sanitation, restaurants, painting, construction, gardening,....just to name a few. To claim that they are doing the jobs that "Americans don't want" is a lie! Ten years ago, Americans were doing these jobs and still would for minimum wage....but they are not willing to do them $2/hour like the migrant workers. This was recently proven with the Swift raids, which were busted for hiring over 1000 illegal immigrants in the meat packing industry. The next day, there were more than enough Americans lined up applying for those jobs.

I don't think the health care industry is immune to this kind of bottom line nonsense.

Also, to claim that foreign nurses are doing the jobs Americans don't want is NOT accurate when there are over 150,000 American applicants/yr being turned down from nursing school. At some schools the waiting line is over 3 years long!!!! Frankly, given the language barrier, I'd suspect that the majority of these American applicants would make much better candidates and provide better patient care than the foreign nurses.

Hospital administrators have already demonstrated major efforts to reduce costs in health care. Pediatric NPs replacing Pediatricians, CRNAs replacing Anesthesiologists, Optometrists replacing Ophthalmologists, foreign radiologists in India replacing American radiologists via teleradiology, etc....these are all cost cutting measures....

I am in support having foreign nurses IF they are NOT taking American jobs (meaning we've accepted all our applicants) and IF they are paid the same wage as American nurses. Payment of anything less than the going rate for Americans will lead the health care industry down a dangerous detour for patient care and the nursing industry.

Admittedly, I am very pro-American, but I think this is reaching a point where we need to start howling about foreigners replacing Americans in many industries...especially in health care given its risk to patient care.

Hope I didn't offend anyone with this post...

You have very strong feelings on this subject, but everthing seems to be based on this one statement:

lorianncw wrote:I just read an article that confirms that many foreign nurses do in fact receive reduced salaries.

That article would be interesting for me to read. The nurses that have been hired at the HCA hospital where I work are making a similar wage when compared to what a similarly experienced RN would make in a similar setting. The information that I have is what these foreign nurses have actually told me. They are very open about it.

Do you have a link to your article?

lorianncw wrote:I am in support having foreign nurses IF they are NOT taking American jobs (meaning we've accepted all our applicants) and IF they are paid the same wage as American nurses. Payment of anything less than the going rate for Americans will lead the health care industry down a dangerous detour for patient care and the nursing industry.

I think it's pretty well established that there are many more nursing jobs than there are nurses. I have never met a nurse with a clean resume who wanted to work and was unable to find an employer. I think it's a safe bet that all qualified applicants are accepted in the current job market. Job security is very good in nursing.

I do agree with you that if newly immigrated nurses are paid significantly less than similarly qualified US nurses we will have a serious problem, but I haven't read your article yet and my personal experience shows that this is not the case.

lorianncw wrote:Admittedly, I am very pro-American, but I think this is reaching a point where we need to start howling about foreigners replacing Americans in many industries...especially in health care given its risk to patient care.

I think that you will have to show where foreign nurses are a risk to patient care for me to completely agree with you on this point. A large percentage of the staff at the hospital where I work were not born in the USA. We have nurses from Philipines, India, UK, New Zealand, Caribbean, Croatia, etc. I don't believe that patient outcomes are any different where I work than in other hospitals.

This was the article that suggests some foreign nurses are paid less:
http://www.vdare.com/guzzardi/nurses.htm

Nurse’s language barrier halts operation:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2143680.stm

Nurse’s language barrier
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1845272.stm
http://carpundit.typepad.com/carpundit/2007/02/my_younger_son_.html
http://www.businessgrouphealth.org/pdfs/lang_barrier_issuebrief.pdf
http://www.vdare.com/letters/tl_011607.htm

Patient language barrier
http://www.mcw.edu/display/router.asp?docid=17695
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/116/3/575


One other point I failed to make before is that even if some foreign nurses are paid the same salary as American nurses, they are still hurting American nurses by supressing their wages.