On a related note; I'm all for socialized medicine, but I doubt the AMA would ever go for it.
just my opinion but:
A) If Ted Kennedy is responsible for it, I'm very concerned. This guy...I don't know how in the heck he stays in office and out of prison.
B) I'm definitely against socialized medicine. Bad bad bad idea. I like the way it is now, where only illegal immigrants have that benefit.:confused::confused::confused:
Capitalism drives this country, and we already are doing to much for those that WON'T do for themselves.
Every plan we put into place works very well in theory, but when you don't regulate the fraud and criminalization of it, those who it was intended to benefit suffer. See just about every type of welfare this country has to offer.
I just don't think it would work.
I'm all for change, but i don't think socialism is the answer.
There are a lot of plans that I think could work, but they never work as intended. By the time lobbyists make their mark, and the politicians do their dirty work, it comes out flawed to start, then it begins to be taken advantage of in a way that it wasn't intended and it becomes a burden on the middle class working person.
This is probably an unrelated rant but I'm just so tired of the system (omg, did I just say tired of the system lol, maybe I should rephrase!) of government that we have where party loyalty, corruption, and politically correctness has ruined our country that I'm pessimistic about just about everything put forth today.
I agree, We don't need universal health care.. we'd still be paying for it in the form of Taxes. you think they take out too much for taxes now? Just wait and let them add the taxes to cover that!.. I dont wan't anymore taken out.
I do not think we should allow coverage to illegal immigrants. If they want coverage, they should enter the contry legally, work a real job, pay real taxes, and then get everything we as Citizens do. (not that we get much as it is)
I am all about helping those that can't help themselves, homeless, addicts.. and whatnot, but I also stand strong on my opnion that if you enter this country illegally, and bare a child, then that child was born here illegally.. it would be cheaper to put that one child in foster care, send the illegal parents back to where they came from and face charges for entering the country illegally. It would be cheaper then raising that one child and the next 4-5 or more that come because they don't believe in birth control.
Again.. if they come here legally, lets help them out.. Illegal, is illegal, pregnant or not.
itravelrn
Acutally, if those that are against universal healthcare were to look at some of the many facts (regardless of our government's ability to screw up things), it is the only way for a "civilized country" to go:
- We already pay for and then some in the insurance premiums we pay. What we have to guard against is the government doing with the health care funds what they do with the Social Security funds, and that is spending them on other things. Mind you, they don't do that with their own retirement and health care, just those of the general public.
- Canada's system is excellent and provides excellent care.
- Universal health demands more of a "health" model than the "sick" model we use in this country. The sick model generates more overhead and more money, but in my 25+ years in this business, I can't say any significant part of that has gone to me!
- The "health" model is better for nursing than the "sick" model.
- We do not have the best health care in the world but we pay more per capita than any other country in the world. Why? The insurance industry is even more corrupt and greedy than even the government!
Just my thoughts on the subject.
NAPNES,
IMHO, you had some excellent thoughts! In my RN-BSN program my elective course was titled; Health Care Delivery System with textbook of similar title, Health Care Delivery in the United States 7th Ed.
We actually had an online discussion on the European National Health Insurance [NHI] system. Canada is an example of a newer NHI system, which operates in a federal institutional structure that resembles more closely that of the United States when compared to other nations that use the NHI system such as France and Great Britain. Canada uses national & provinicial general tax revenue to finance a federal decentralized NHI system. Canada's levels of health status are high by international standards. Compared to the U.S., Canada has achieved notable success in controlling the growth of health care costs.
However, the Canadian NHI system is not without fault. Yet, it is a fact that health care cost for the elderly, and under priviledged in the U.S. is getting way out of hand. Let us leave out the issue of illegal immigrants for a moment and consider all the hard working U.S. citizens without medical insurance. Again, I'm not talking about the street people, or those that try to live on welfare forever. I'm speaking strictly about your every day hard working American & retired Americans with little to no medical health insurance. Well! Our present health care delivery system regards to demand & cost is NOT WORKING!
No, I don't have the exact solution... and I'm not a Kennedy fan, either. Actually, I consider myself a Republican that leans towards some type of NHI for our people... the American public.
... I'll get off my soap box [for now] ;)
FYI - European countries that have socialized medicine that works have something we don't. They have citizens who are willing to pay 50%-70% of their income in taxes to pay for it. I can think of even the most liberal American that can stomach that!
hppy
hppygr8ful wrote:FYI - European countries that have socialized medicine that works have something we don't. They have citizens who are willing to pay 50%-70% of their income in taxes to pay for it. I can think of even the most liberal American that can stomach that!
hppy
Can you
stomach those Americans that cannot afford health care insurance? All I'm saying is something has to change. Especially, with Americans living longer, but not with good health. However, you are right! No one wants to pay high taxes.
I do Living History, and know that back 'in the day', the average life span wasn't all that long. No ABT., no immunizations, heck...women died in childbirth (didn't know about placenta abrupto., etc...). An instructor said that if we were able to check some of these people, quite a few would also have cancer. Guess that with 'better health care' comes other problems, eh?
I have trouble with trusting a Kennedy. I'd have to give much thought on a Universal Health Care Plan as it has it's pros and cons. I'm pretty used to the way it is now and having the government control that more than it already does, is a bit frightening. But I have to admit that Health Insurance is a problem with no easy solution.
Ok guys and gals,
I have been trying and trying to avoid this thread but it keeps tracking me down. How about a little bit of view from the other side.
I am an ER nurse. This is just one perspective, some of you will not like this but in humor I post it here for all.
Socialized medicine, the European plan, Canadian Health Care. They all have one thing in common.... wait untill later to be treated. How long do you actually think a health care plan will last in todays "want it, need it, gotta have it now, entitlement class" people. There will be a massive uprising of the poor folks. They will call their congeressman, thier senator and the president if they can to complain how unfair the system is to them. Private health care will continue to survive as every plastic surgeon, allergist, and dermatolgist will attest to. HOWEVER... the first time you tell the girl in the ER that she will need to see an OB/GYN in 4 weeks to handle her vag bleed... the revolt will begin! When the little boy with tonsilitis comes in via EMS and is escorted to the waiting room with instructions to see his php, his mother will loooooooose it! Easily 70+percent of the visitors of the ER is people who do not have clearly defined emergent problems. Now do I say turn away anyone.... of course not! The asthmatics, CHF probs, ESRD's no... let them come by the bus load, but the sore throats, fussy babies, gout issues and tummy pains need to learn to treat at home. Buy a thermometer, buy tylenol, buy motrin.... its amazing, we can cure this crap at home! Instead of paying your good hard earned cash for cell phone bills, alcohol, or cigerettes YOU can contribute to your own health...... IMAGINE that.....
As long as the US has the entitlement class.... we are free of socialized medicine!
clem
There will be a massive uprising of the poor folks. - Clem
Well, a lot of those poor folks don't even have health insurance D/T $$$
;)
practically all poor people and a good chunk of what we call middle class dont have ins. A development that I think will be very telling for the future, General Motors is "considering" their options regarding the HUGE expense they have in health care, both for employes, families and retirees.
Part of the "options" to be concidered may be some sort of bancrupcy (sp?). (A popular tack these days for large corps is to dump healthcare expenses in bancrupcy court.) As an employer, the federal government will not allow the car maker to go under..... remember the Chrysler thing some time back. It is rumored that some sort of psuedo-private/public health care system for employees is going to be "tried". This would be federally and privately managed to try and devise something that works for "Universal Health Care" for the rest of the country.
Obviously this all would take lots of time (thank God) but I believe it is where we are heading.
Excuse the spelling, last night sucked and I dont type well when Im tired:eek:
shortbus wrote:just my opinion but:
A) If Ted Kennedy is responsible for it, I'm very concerned. This guy...I don't know how in the heck he stays in office and out of prison.
B) I'm definitely against socialized medicine. Bad bad bad idea. I like the way it is now, where only illegal immigrants have that benefit.:confused::confused::confused:
Capitalism drives this country, and we already are doing to much for those that WON'T do for themselves.
Every plan we put into place works very well in theory, but when you don't regulate the fraud and criminalization of it, those who it was intended to benefit suffer. See just about every type of welfare this country has to offer.
I just don't think it would work.
I'm all for change, but i don't think socialism is the answer.
There are a lot of plans that I think could work, but they never work as intended. By the time lobbyists make their mark, and the politicians do their dirty work, it comes out flawed to start, then it begins to be taken advantage of in a way that it wasn't intended and it becomes a burden on the middle class working person.
This is probably an unrelated rant but I'm just so tired of the system (omg, did I just say tired of the system lol, maybe I should rephrase!) of government that we have where party loyalty, corruption, and politically correctness has ruined our country that I'm pessimistic about just about everything put forth today.
Shouldn't all medicine (like it is in just about every other civilized, developed nation on the planet) be socialized? Yeah, it would require a lot of compromise, more taxes and a radical change in attitude by healthcare professionals and patients on just about every level. I'm not going to ramble, but let me just say that it is an embarassment to this "great" nation that we do not provide medical treatment to those who need it simply on the basis of that need. (Without health "insurance", I would die. So in other words, if I ever become unable to work 36 hours a week, my life will be in danger simply because of the way I was born? F*@k the insurance companies and the soulless, greedy pieces of crap that reap the profits of bilking people out of outrageous sums of money that they shouldn't have to pay in the first place.
William Zech, I suggest you reserve that kind of posting for the Rubber Room.
