Why are male patients not afforded the same level of privacy considerations that female patients recieve. There should be no difference. All patients
should be given the same considerations. The patient bill of rights clearly
states that a patient has a right to dignity and privacy and that it's not
gender specific.
Please don't tell me that it dosen't happen or that you don't see it
in your workplace. What I want to know is why. Is this just a feminist
prevalent attitude that was just taught in nursing school or is it just an
upbringing. After recently being hospitalized twice in the last month at a
prestigous hospital (mayo) this issue became apparent. When I arrived to
my room in the emergency department I was asked to change into a gown.
My room had big glass windows. Two nurses stood at the doorway and
gigled as visitors and guests walked by as I was changing. They didn't bother
to pull the drape. I was in a lot of pain and just complied although I should
have said something. Once I was admitted it got worse. All total I had 7
nurses (female) and not one seemed to care about my privacy. I just
like my privacy thats all. I've done a little research on this and found
that on several state nursing boards that this is grounds for license
revocation. I find this disturbing and I what I want to do is speak to as many
people as I can about this. I'm willing to bet this attitude is prevalent
throughout all institutions.
Is privacy something you have to ask for? Is should it be expected. Read
the post. I was in pain. Really didnt notice at first. It's people like you
that are the problem in healthcare!
Listen man, if you want to ask a legitimate question that's fine, but when someone responds and you don't hear what you want, if you're going to attack them, then you need to find somewhere else to vent.
You clearly have an agenda and if you can't calmly and rationally discuss things then go somewhere else.
AmandaWIRN is NOT THE PROBLEM. You have no idea about her, so your statement is as stereotypical as your initial stereotypes about women in the healthcare industry.
I'm a man, and while I agree there is a double standard, you are going about this in the wrong way entirely.
additionally, all she did was ask you why you didn't ask them to close them.
You could have answered her without being rude.
To answer your question:
No, you shouldn't have to ask for privacy.
However, if you noticed that people could see in, why did you not ask for them to be closed?
You state that you were in pain, but you obviously weren't in too much pain to notice that it was open and that people were looking in. If that's the case, you should have then asked for them to close the curtains.
I am sure they would have been more than happy to comply and I doubt there was any intention of disregarding your privacy.
Sometimes mistakes are made. No one is perfect. And in the ER, there are sometimes more important things to worry about and minds can forget simple things like closing curtains.
Please remember that we are humans; we make mistakes. I don't think the curtain was left open because you are a male. I know it is wrong, but sometimes I think we just get so used to seeing parts of the body that we forget that not everyone has the professional perspective we have. I work L+D, and once the initial shock wore off, I got used to seeing 20-plus people in the delivery room watching...friends, sisters, brothers, fathers, in-laws, co-workers, the list goes on and on. When I work in a facility that allows this, and with patients that actually want this, then move to another hospital, it takes a day or two to get out of the habit. And even after 15 years, I still might forget to close a curtain or a door- just remind me. I won't be offended and will probably thank you for reminding me.
Aaron C. wrote:additionally, all she did was ask you why you didn't ask them to close them.
You could have answered her without being rude.
To answer your question:
No, you shouldn't have to ask for privacy.
However, if you noticed that people could see in, why did you not ask for them to be closed?
You state that you were in pain, but you obviously weren't in too much pain to notice that it was open and that people were looking in. If that's the case, you should have then asked for them to close the curtains.
I am sure they would have been more than happy to comply and I doubt there was any intention of disregarding your privacy.
Sometimes mistakes are made. No one is perfect. And in the ER, there are sometimes more important things to worry about and minds can forget simple things like closing curtains.
Wow, I'm really surprised with this thread. First, I'm impressed with how quickly you [Aaron C.]defended Amanda. Obviously, the OP attacked Amanda because she is a female nurse and he was venting. Yet, he was only venting and in no way could have meant anything personal. I certainly agree, he was guilty of being thoughtless & rude. However, we were all taught how transference works and patients are often guilty of doing such towards nurses.
The OP was a male patient that was not given privacy while in the ER, as well as while admitted for seven days. Yes, his generalized statement at Amanda was cold hearted & undeserved. Yet, I have noticed since being in the health care field for over 12 years how privacy is given more to female patients than male patients. Why is that? It is an every day event for a female nurse to provide nursing care to a male patient involving private areas such as bed bathes, foley catheter insertions, etc. However, it is a big no-no for a male nurse to provide similar nursing care to a female patient w/o having a female nurse as a witness in the same room. Why the double standard?
... maybe playing the devil's advocate, or advocating for male patients
You need to make the distinction between double standard and patient
privacy rights. They are two very distinct entities. A double standard being perhaps issues you encounter as a male nurse. Patient privacy is a Federally
mandated patient bill of rights. The incident in the er was the least egregious
failure of my privacy. As I mentioned, it got worse after I was admitted.
Ethic of reciprocity, the golden rule. Treat others as you would like to
be treated. Was it too much of me to expect. A little privacy and dignity. Why
would I have to ask for that. I am a paying patient but then would it really matter. I had a kidney stone. Payment I get for working out too much perhaps and not drinking enough water. I own a business and employ 72 people. I
provide health care benefits to all my employees. Through the health benefits
of my employees my company contributes roughly about a million annual dollars
to that hospital and its associated clinics.
I spoke with my HR rep and I said you know. Our policy is just about
up next month. Perhaps you draft a letter to the CEO of the hospital and say
that due to the lack of respect I recieved at your facility we've chosen another
carrier that makes our employees ineligible for care at your facility.
Would you say that that is the way I should go about this Aaron. How
do you think I should go about this? I pay health insurance and make my co-
pays. Those monies is what comprises the salaries of employees at the
hospital. That's how they pay for their homes, their food and clothing. Should
I copy this thread along with my bad experience and send it to every nursing
association in the country and say. Here is part of the problem in healthcare.
Why Aaron, would I have to ask for a little privacy? Isn't that inherent
in patient care. Tell me Aaron, how do I effect change? You seem to think I'm
going about this all wrong! Awareness, Aaron is the first way you effect change. You first point problems out and try to change perceptions. I meant
everything I said and don't take anything back. People want to call themselves
professionals fine I dont care, but act like it.
To each his own, but coming on a NURSING board and personally insulting NURSES isn't going to accomplish much. If you have a problem with a particular hospital, then file a complaint with that hospital. This is not the proper arena for your complaint. No you should not HAVE to ask for privacy, BUT, like others have said, nurses are busy, busy people. If your nurse forgot to close your curtain, you could have just asked her to, instead of fuming about it for 7 days and then coming on a nursing board and insulting other nurses who had nothing to do with your care at a particular hospital.....
As an ER nurse, I have about a dozen things running through my mind at any given time. I try to provide the BEST care for all of my patients, and that includes respecting their privacy, but I can tell you that closing the curtain of the 19 year old kidney stone patient is going to be pretty close to the bottom of the list. I also don't have time to think of ways to intentionally disrespect the privacy of all of my male patients.... So what I'm saying is that the nurse forgetting to close the curtain was most likely not intentional or premeditated, and that she probably had a million more important things on her mind, so if she forgot to close the curtain, you could have just asked her to!
You need to make the distinction between double standard and patient
privacy rights. They are two very distinct entities. A double standard being perhaps issues you encounter as a male nurse. Patient privacy is a Federally mandated patient bill of rights. The incident in the er was the least egregious failure of my privacy. As I mentioned, it got worse after I was admitted.
Ethic of reciprocity, the golden rule. Treat others as you would like to
be treated. Was it too much of me to expect. A little privacy and dignity. Why
would I have to ask for that. I am a paying patient but then would it really matter. I had a kidney stone. Payment I get for working out too much perhaps and not drinking enough water. I own a business and employ 72 people. I provide health care benefits to all my employees. Through the health benefits of my employees my company contributes roughly about a million annual dollarsto that hospital and its associated clinics.
I spoke with my HR rep and I said you know. Our policy is just about up next month. Perhaps you draft a letter to the CEO of the hospital and say that due to the lack of respect I recieved at your facility we've chosen another carrier that makes our employees ineligible for care at your facility.
Would you say that that is the way I should go about this Aaron. How do you think I should go about this? I pay health insurance and make my co-pays. Those monies is what comprises the salaries of employees at the hospital. That's how they pay for their homes, their food and clothing. Should I copy this thread along with my bad experience and send it to every nursing association in the country and say. Here is part of the problem in healthcare.
Why Aaron, would I have to ask for a little privacy? Isn't that inherent in patient care. Tell me Aaron, how do I effect change? You seem to think I'm going about this all wrong! Awareness, Aaron is the first way you effect change. You first point problems out and try to change perceptions. I meant everything I said and don't take anything back. People want to call themselves professionals fine I dont care, but act like it.
Muscleman,
BTW, that is a cool username. I'd like to think of myself has a musclehead, too. In fact, when I went on R&R last month my wife told me I've gotten cut up while I was in the Sandbox pumping iron. Yet, I digress from the present topic.
I really think you have misunderstood Aaron's replies. He probably did not mean to discredit your original complaint regards to lack of privacy as a male patient. Sometimes communication on these message boards can be easily misread. His immediate defense for one of our moderators was D/T your rude transference towards Amanda. I'm sure she practices patient privacy to the upmost. Maybe those that replied did not read your post completely. I, on the otherhand, did pick up you were dissatisfied with both your nursing care in the ED, as well as during seven day hospital stay regards to privacy. Sometimes the ED can be hectic but the patient's modesty should always come first. Maybe you could have mentioned to one of the ED nurses your concerns but then who are way to say your state of mind at the time D/T pain issues, etc.
Now, during your seven day hospital stay did you ever voice your concerns regards to privacy? Sometimes a patient/nurse professional relationship just does not click and best the charge nurse to make an assignment switch. However, if you did not voice your concerns [realize in a perfect world conflict does not exist... yet, we don't have the luxury of a perfect world] how could a wrong be corrected?
Finally, we, the health care professionals on this site, are not your enemy, nor do we think little of your expectation of privacy while a hospital patient. I realize you had a bad experience as a patient. I certainly hope the next time you are a hospital patient the scenario is much different. Yet, I'd like to think there is still time for you to have a good experience with us here but could you please ... relax and not vent at us?
I'm not 19 years old. I wish I were 19 again. At any rate, my visit
to the er was at 5 in the morning. People were standing around and I think
people had plenty of time to think about appropriate patient care. My
opinions haven't changed. I did write a formal complaint to the state
nursing board. I wrote an imprompto complaint to the CEO. If I have to
ask for privacy then people just DON'T get it. Remember, it's your lively
hood. Patient privacy is a serious issue. Maybe Amanda you should consider
another line of work!
I'm not 19 years old. I wish I were 19 again. At any rate, my visit
to the er was at 5 in the morning. People were standing around and I think
people had plenty of time to think about appropriate patient care. My
opinions haven't changed. I did write a formal complaint to the state
nursing board. I wrote an imprompto complaint to the CEO. If I have to
ask for privacy then people just DON'T get it. Remember, it's your lively
hood. Patient privacy is a serious issue. Maybe Amanda you should consider
another line of work!
Wow, I tried to give you my sympathetic ears. In fact, you have ignored my replies on this thread, which does irritate me a little bit. Yet, your continued a personal one-on-one battle with Amanda and it is unwarranted. She was not your nurse. She has took the time and effort to reply to your rants from the perspective of an ER RN. She was not saying you are right, or wrong. She was just saying her perspective as an ER RN. Thought it was worth repeating. However, your personal attacks against Amanda need to cease, ASAP. Otherwise, this thread will be closed in a heartbeat. And, if you do copy this thread I certainly hope you copy every single word. Sir, you should consider previewing your post before posting. Surely, you are not normally this... insensitive?
I'm not 19 years old. I wish I were 19 again. At any rate, my visit
to the er was at 5 in the morning. People were standing around and I think
people had plenty of time to think about appropriate patient care. My
opinions haven't changed. I did write a formal complaint to the state
nursing board. I wrote an imprompto complaint to the CEO. If I have to
ask for privacy then people just DON'T get it. Remember, it's your lively
hood. Patient privacy is a serious issue. Maybe Amanda you should consider
another line of work!
Your profile says you are 19 years old..... If that is not your age, then you have provided false information on your profile.
Why should I consider another line of work??? I am a good nurse. If you were dying or critically ill- I would be one of the nurses you would want at your bedside. I treat my patients with respect, and I try to honor their privacy. All I said was that maybe your nurse had a lot more important things on her mind, and that perhaps her not closing the curtain was an honest mistake. Remember, you are on a NURSING board for NURSES- I was just letting you know what might have been going on from a nurse's perspective. I suggest that if you are going to come on a nursing board meant for nurses, that you STOP insulting our profession and flinging personal insults.
AmandaWIRN wrote:Your profile says you are 19 years old..... If that is not your age, then you have provided false information on your profile.
Why should I consider another line of work??? I am a good nurse. If you were dying or critically ill- I would be one of the nurses you would want at your bedside. I treat my patients with respect, and I try to honor their privacy. All I said was that maybe your nurse had a lot more important things on her mind, and that perhaps her not closing the curtain was an honest mistake. Remember, you are on a NURSING board for NURSES- I was just letting you know what might have been going on from a nurse's perspective. I suggest that if you are going to come on a nursing board meant for nurses, that you STOP insulting our profession and flinging personal insults.
First of all, I agreed with you on the issue, saying there WAS a double standard.
As Magred pointed out, a female can insert a catheter in a male patient with no problems but a male cannot do the same to a female without a female in the room to observe.
Of course, there is some justified protection there until women start coming out of the woodwork and raping and molesting men and children.
You ask my why you should have to ask for privacy. As I said, you shouldn't HAVE TO ASK, but if it's not given to you and then you DON'T ASK, how mad can you really be? If you didn't even want it bad enough to ask for it, then how can you be upset enough to complain about it?
Just because they forgot to pull the curtain for you does not mean there is a widespread problem. It means there as an isolated incident.
I'm not taking up for the industry and saying there isn't a problem. I'm just saying that one incident does not mean there is a problem.
I am sorry that you had to endure whatever embarrassment and harassment you felt like you did, but it's certainly not reason to sign up on a message forum and breathe fire at people.
-------
I called in an order to Old Chicago last week and my wife picked it up on her way home. I ordered Stromboli and was given a Calzone. I told repeated it to the girl THREE TIMES, but she still go it wrong.
I logged onto their website and filled out a complaint form letting them know I was unhappy with my order being wrong but understood that it was just a mistake and mistakes happen and that I won't let it keep me from eating there again. I can't count how many times I've eaten somewhere that some careless young waiter or waitress or counter person didn't give two craps about what I ordered or how my experience was. But again, I realize the restaurant is doing the best they can with the resources they have. If it happens several times at the same place and the owners don't care, then that's different.
It's the same thing.
You can't make broadened, generalized statements about an entire healthcare industry, roughly 4 million RN's and LPN's, based on what two nurses did one time in the E.R. department.
Contact the hospital and in a professional and mature way, let them know about your experience and how it made you feel. Tell them you won't go back to that hospital again if that is what you choose.
Other than that, I'd say it's time to just let it go.
Every time I get in the car with my wife she tells me driving alone is going to take 10 years off my life because I get so frustrated with other drivers.
PEOPLE, "in general" these days, are just inconsiderate, rude, and obtuse. I'm learning to live with it.
I'm not 19 years old. I wish I were 19 again. At any rate, my visit
to the er was at 5 in the morning. People were standing around and I think
people had plenty of time to think about appropriate patient care. My
opinions haven't changed. I did write a formal complaint to the state
nursing board. I wrote an imprompto complaint to the CEO. If I have to
ask for privacy then people just DON'T get it. Remember, it's your lively
hood. Patient privacy is a serious issue. Maybe Amanda you should consider
another line of work!
Ethic of reciprocity, the golden rule. Treat others as you would like to
be treated. Was it too much of me to expect. A little privacy and dignity. Why
would I have to ask for that.
They hypocrisy of this statement is resounding.
This is a free message board.
We are nurses, here to HELP.
Is it too much for us to ask YOU to treat US as you wish to be treated?
Is it too much for us to ask YOU to reciprocate a little ethics OUR WAY?
I understand that you aren't happy with the way you are treated, but THIS PLACE has nothing to do with that, nor do any of the people here.
With your ATTITUDE...if you came in like that, no wonder people might be staring.
I can hear it now, "who's the jerk in room one screaming at the nurses?"
You aren't going to get ANYWHERE with us with the attitude you have displayed to this point.
If you want to continue having an attitude, then I'll just ban your buttocks and you can take your anger and hate somewhere else.
If you want to CALMLY and intelligently discuss what happened to you and whether there might be a legitimate issue at hand, and what you might do about it, then we can continue, but we all have real jobs, and none of us have time to put up with this crap!
My apologies Magredc5, my dob is 1978. In conclusion, I was very polite
when I went there. I had a total of 7 nurses if you go back and read
my original post. It's concerning in that I went through 7 caregivers
and each one showed a flagrant disregard for my privacy. It's sad really!
Muscleman wrote:My apologies MagRedC5, my dob is 1978. In conclusion, I was very polite when I went there. I had a total of 7 nurses if you go back and read my original post. It's disconcerning in that I went through 7 caregivers and each one showed a flagrant disregard for my privacy. It's sad really!
IMHO, you owe Amanda & Aaron an apology, rather than myself. Just stop venting at the members here, which in fact are fellow moderators & the owner of this site, LOL.
Again, we were merely trying to explain from a nurses perspective. We were not discounting your right to patient privacy. You kind of got side tracked a little with your mud slinging at fellow members here and muddy'd the waters. Let's clean this thread up by making productive comments, rather than judgemental comments.
I understand your anger over your invasion of privacy experience and can somewhat understand how you extrapolate your experience as being typical of what all male patients experience. I agree with you only as far as that sometimes less concern is exercised when the male chest is exposed. If while you were in the emergency department, the curtain was left open and you were exposed, you have a legitimate reason to be upset but if the nurse while in the process, failed to close it completely, I'm inclined to think it was an honest oversight. I find it hard to believe that throughout your hospital stay, the entire staff was cavalier about your privacy. You were a patient in a hospital and your body was going to be repeatedly examined. Your attire was going to be designed for that purpose and if your issue was urological, you wouldn't be wearing undershorts. The whole experience was going to be uncomfortable. I struggle with your outrage over what for as long as I can remember has been the standard joke about being in a hospital; that you lose your modesty. Have you never seen the get well cards featuring a bare butt sticking out from the back of a jonnie coat?
I've been a healthcare provider for almost thirty years and have never disregarded my patients' privacy. My colleagues and I strive to keep our patients covered as much as possible because we realize that so often, they must be exposed. Additionally, I have been a patient myself several times. Each time the experience made me feel vulnerable and exposed but I got over it and I never felt as though my privacy was disregarded. In your last entry, you summarily dismiss all of the care and treatment that you received while in the hospital as substandard because you feel as though your privacy was consistently violated. Furthermore, you indicate that you are outraged enough to send a letter to your health insurance carrier to request that XYZ hospital not be granted provider status for your employees. Do you actually feel as though this position is warranted and not perhaps overreactionary? Do you also feel as though staff at this particular hospital treats their patients modesty differently than staff at any other?
My experience has been that people generally understand that these things happen when something is wrong with their bodies and they go to the hospital to get it fixed.
In closing, I'm going out on a limb here but I have to inquire about your habit of working out in the gym. I myself work out in a gym and one gym rat to another, you have to admit that there is little modesty there. Like most, I wear tank tops and shorts when I work out. This exposes a little skin but I get hot and I sweat so I wear what I view as proper attire. When I finish my workout, I shower there which means that I appear nude in front of others. I'm not an exhibitionist but I have no hang-ups about nudity either. Is this different for you, muscleman, or do you wear full length pants and shirt at the gym and shower at home? Am I barking up the wrong tree?
What one person may perceive as a blatant disregard for privacy, another might not even notice or care about. I spent enough years in the military that I can shower/dress/toilet with other people right there and can just ignore them; my good friend however is very shy and would be horribly offended if she had to do any of these with other people present.
My point, Muscleman, is that perhaps your expectations were outside the "norm"? Did you communicate your needs/desires to the nurses who cared for you? Were your needs/desires reasonable, or something that might interfere with your safety and/or their ability to do their job?
If I ever did something as a nurse that made a patient uncomfortable I hope they would tell me! Atleast then I could pass it along in report that pt is uncomfortable and possibly quite anxious. I am pretty good about pulling curtains as i walk into a room if i know im going to do something invasive or "revealing", however, again.. still human and sometimes im at the bedside before i reach back and pull it. Having never worked in the ER I cant really say but i do know that most ER's have minimal privacy with or without curtain as well as semi private rooms in hospitals. SO... while it is our best effort to maintain privacy especially with conversation we are still humans who are understaffed and over worked. NOt an excuse I am aware!! IN terms of this being more so for men than women, i disagree!!!! If im undressing someone the curtain gets closed. the end. just like if the patient is comatose... they dont know if the curtain is closed or not but it still gets pulled. I agree with other posts that said these complaints should have been filed with the hospital at fault. if you did not get the results you wanted you should have kept going up, not down to a nurses forum with no room in your mind set for understanding. HOwever, I will apologize none the less for these nurses and your experience.
James the name, to my friends it's Muscleman.
CEO, Entrepreneur and Software engineer.
Hobbies: I provide financial startup costs for homeless animal shelters.
Champion for lost and homeless pets.
Avid bodybuilder and martial artist since I was 13.
Visit as many coffee shops as I can before I die.
Sleep, who needs it. Waste of time!
My mother....My best friend
Girlfriend...Kate
My dogs...Bart and Misty
Crime committed......Being a male patient in a hospital.:(
James the name, to my friends it's Muscleman.
CEO, Entrepreneur and Software engineer.
Hobbies: I provide financial startup costs for homeless animal shelters.
Champion for lost and homeless pets.
Avid bodybuilder and martial artist since I was 13.
Visit as many coffee shops as I can before I die.
Sleep, who needs it. Waste of time!
My mother....My best friend
Girlfriend...Kate
My dogs...Bart and Misty
Crime committed......Being a male patient in a hospital.:(
The above should be placed in your site profile. Otherwise, let it go.
BTW, I studied Judo, Uechi-Ryu Karate, Aikijujitsu, Army Combatives. What is your martial art of choice?
Without disregarding your view regarding being denied the proper sense of privacy, as an ER nurse, I must ask...Were you removing only your shirt at this point, or your pants also?? I'm sure that we have all left open a curtain or two when a man removes his shirt to place on a gown...and I do find it hard to believe that any nurse would leave a curtain open while you removed your pants. You see, without specific information we, as nurses who know what we do each day, cannot totally empathize with you because what you perceive to be a lack of disregard to your privacy, we may perceive differently. Just as what we perceive to be an emergency, you may perceive differently.
That's not my intro but my rap sheet. BTW, does your handle
stand for the color of your 5th generation Corvette C5. If so nice car
as I had the upportunity to drive one once. I have an 04 Ferrari 360
Modena, black on tan with OZ rims and custom fab speed motorsport
headers and exhaust. I see that you are in the Armed forces. I thank
you and salute you for your sacrifice and dedication.
The uniform that you adorn,a piece of our heritage proudly worn.
Doing what you have to do,serving our nation brave and true.
You're putting your life on the line,to protect this simple life of mine.
The proud and courageous are but a few, our hearts and thanks go
out to you.
Thank you and certainly a fair question as I'll be specific about the first
incident. My neighbors brought me to the hospital as I was unable to drive
myself due to the pain. Shortly after arriving at the hospital I was taken to my
room in the emergency department via a wheelchair. As the triage nurse
parked my wheelchair to the right side of the bed two nurses walked and
stood facing each other just outside the room. One of the nurses told me to
take my clothes off and change into the gown that was on the bed.
I stood up and started to lie down on the bed. The nurse said you have to
change into the gown first. The pain I was experiencing was tremendous and
basically all I wanted to do was lie down in a fetal position. I took of the shirt,
stepped out of my jeans and underwear and reached for the gown. At that
point out the left corner of my eye I noticed a crowd of perhaps 7 to ten
people walking by. At the point I was nude and continued to reach for the
gown. I was at that point nearly facing the doorway of the room.
The two nurses were still standing in the hallway and part of the crowd
had stopped in front of my room. I didn't really focus on faces but none
were wearing hospital attire and perhaps half or more were women. All
looked to be in business attire. The entire front of my room was glass with
the sliding door was glass as well. Anyone walking by had full visibility to
the entire room which was well illuminated. There were drapes but they were
in the room and were not drawn.
It's one of those situations whereby I knew what just happened but I
was just focusing on trying to handle the pain and I just complied. When
part of the crowd stopped in front of my room I just thought "whatever"
and continued to reach for the gown and put it on. I didn't have an
opportunity to analyze the situation moment by moment. All I wanted to do
was lie down on that bed.
Now that we all know the details, I'm sure anyone in this forum (or any nurse in general) can now say that they visualized the whole scenario as they read your post. I'm sure we would all agree that we have at one point or another realized a curtain was left open, snatched ahold of it, and ripped it shut "just in the nick of time". I must say that I would have to agree with your frustration and anger and say that to some extent it is warranted. Any ER nurse who has had a man come in with a kidney stone can empathize with you and understand why you did not think nor care at THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT if the curtain was or was not closed. I'm sure that once the pain was relieved and you had the time to reflect you were angry - as any one of us would be also.
However, maybe the way you have handled the situation is what frustrates some of the people on this board. If you would have given the details in your original post, I can guarantee you that you would have had a different reaction here. I also think that I have read enough of AmandaWIRNs posts to know that she appears to be a good, professional nurse, and may have also responded differently to you...
When I was in nursing school and doing my SNF rotation I went into a pt room to help one of my patients with a bedbath. After I knocked and opened the door I found my classmate with the poor gentleman stark naked on the bed being vigorously scrubbed. He was very obtunded but the first thing I did was go get some warm bath blankets and cover the poor guy. He had goosflesh all over. Then I proceeded to help bath the gentleman as we had been taught exposing small areas and washing them one by one always seeing to privacy and comfort. My classmate couldn't see what the big difference was as the patient wa so out of it. I guess she felt it didn't matter if he couldn't protest.
When taking care of male patients or females I always knock on doors (if not an emergency). Make sure curtains are pulled etc. It's a lot harder where I currently work in psych as many of my patients either have no boundaries or they are so paranoid you can't get near them. Still when one is incontinent or partially cloths my staff and I doo our best to help the patients stay clean and have some dignity.
These are just comments from my corner of the sandbox.
That's not my intro but my rap sheet. BTW, does your handle
stand for the color of your 5th generation Corvette C5. If so nice car
as I had the upportunity to drive one once. I have an 04 Ferrari 360
Modena, black on tan with OZ rims and custom fab speed motorsport
headers and exhaust. I see that you are in the Armed forces. I thank
you and salute you for your sacrifice and dedication.
The uniform that you adorn,a piece of our heritage proudly worn.
Doing what you have to do,serving our nation brave and true.
You're putting your life on the line,to protect this simple life of mine.
The proud and courageous are but a few, our hearts and thanks go
out to you.
Yes, I have 2001 C5 Corvette with exterior color Mag Red II.
Thanks for the poem... and thanks for your support of the troops. I'm an active duty Army Nurse Corps officer deployed to Iraq for 15 months.
hppygr8ful wrote:When I was in nursing school and doing my SNF rotation I went into a pt room to help one of my patients with a bedbath. After I knocked and opened the door I found my classmate with the poor gentleman stark naked on the bed being vigorously scrubbed. He was very obtunded but the first thing I did was go get some warm bath blankets and cover the poor guy. He had goosflesh all over. Then I proceeded to help bath the gentleman as we had been taught exposing small areas and washing them one by one always seeing to privacy and comfort. My classmate couldn't see what the big difference was as the patient wa so out of it. I guess she felt it didn't matter if he couldn't protest.
When taking care of male patients or females I always knock on doors (if not an emergency). Make sure curtains are pulled etc. It's a lot harder where I currently work in psych as many of my patients either have no boundaries or they are so paranoid you can't get near them. Still when one is incontinent or partially cloths my staff and I doo our best to help the patients stay clean and have some dignity.
These are just comments from my corner of the sandbox.
Peace and Namaste
Hppy
LOL, your corner of the sandbox? Are you deployed to Iraq? If not, please remember those of us that are currently deployed to Iraq and live in the sandbox... FOR REAL. :p
In my career as a nurse, I've always afforded patients the same respect and privacy regardless of gender. If I forgot to close a curtain, I would welcome a patients request that I do so. Having been a female patient in the same circumstance as you a simple request of the nursing staff to pull the curtain, no matter how much pain I was in, was well worth not having a resentment over the issue. It might be worthwhile and make more sense for you to address this issue to the hospital admin. from which you received care.:rose:
I have never had to honor to serve our great country - but I send kudos to you and all who are currently deployed to Iraq and other troubled areas of the world. I guess in a way I do serve as I am currently working with a couple of Vets with PTSD. I can't even come close to understanding what you all are facing everyday - I'm sure it's no sandbox. My family and I pray for your safe return everyday. Stray safe do what you have to do and come home soon.
hppygr8ful wrote:I have never had to honor to serve our great country - but I send kudos to you and all who are currently deployed to Iraq and other troubled areas of the world. I guess in a way I do serve as I am currently working with a couple of Vets with PTSD. I can't even come close to understanding what you all are facing everyday - I'm sure it's no sandbox. My family and I pray for your safe return everyday. Stray safe do what you have to do and come home soon.
Peace and Namaste
Hppy
Thank you for providing nursing care to US Vets! PTSD is a very real & devastating disease.
After reading this thread I too find myself feeling like I need to defend not only myself but other ER nurses. First I am always regretful to hear that someone had a negative experience as a patient, especially in the ED. Secondly, I too can say that the nature of the ER is something that few people understand, other than those that live it. I cannot fathom a nurse intentionally leaving a curtain open...but I am curious about the people that were not in uniforms (business attire) at 0500 that were walking about in the ER. Who were they and what were they doing there?
In my facility we have signs about privacy and it states that there are times that visitors will be asked to leave to ensure patient privacy as well as a patient not feeling like they have enough privacy than they should tell their nurse or physician right away. I think everyone deserves privacy, but I also think that patients need to be proactive in their healthcare; such as ensuring their privacy as well as in other ways (medications, advanced directives, etc.).
BeachyCEN wrote:After reading this thread I too find myself feeling like I need to defend not only myself but other ER nurses. First I am always regretful to hear that someone had a negative experience as a patient, especially in the ED. Secondly, I too can say that the nature of the ER is something that few people understand, other than those that live it. I cannot fathom a nurse intentionally leaving a curtain open...but I am curious about the people that were not in uniforms (business attire) at 0500 that were walking about in the ER. Who were they and what were they doing there?
In my facility we have signs about privacy and it states that there are times that visitors will be asked to leave to ensure patient privacy as well as a patient not feeling like they have enough privacy than they should tell their nurse or physician right away. I think everyone deserves privacy, but I also think that patients need to be proactive in their healthcare; such as ensuring their privacy as well as in other ways (medications, advanced directives, etc.).
Just my two cents...
~BeachyCEN
Remember, the OP was also c/o his lack of privacy while an in-patient for seven days. ;)
It is time you take responsibility for yourself and not "assert" yourself by insulting female nurses as is apparent on this thread. I have to question your undressing yourself fully without insuring you have full privacy. I have ALWAYS taken the responsibility for my own privacy. Women cannot expect privacy Anywhere, why do you think you can and that everything should stop until you are satisfied? I don't agree with your comments.
You don't threaten me, annoy me more than anything. Medicine will always be here and you will always need it. You paying for insurance for your employees, does not move me the least. It means nothing in the full scheme of things.
Live and learn. It seems you are on a learning curve. I am sure you will ask for the curtain to be closed next time BEFORE you get naked.
How about if I go to a site for military, and start accusing and spouting off? I don't think that would fly, as your post here isn't either.
On that end, stay safe. You and your commrades remain in our prayers and will continue to do so.
Essentially, what you are saying in essence is that privacy is the sole
responsibility of the patient. That there should be signs posted
throughout every medical facility stating in effect that " you are held
accountable and for insuring your own privacy." Despite your state of mind
or level of pain. I am not a medically trained person. My background is in Business and Computer Science. I've never been a patient before in my life. Ever! Therefore, I had no idea what to expect.
As people we do have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Our government
guarantees it. It's called the 4th amendment. You're telling me here that
you don't concern yourself with patient privacy issues. Perhaps you should
tell you're employer what you wrote , maintain that attitude and see just
how long you stay employed!
Levita wrote:It is time you take responsibility for yourself and not "assert" yourself by insulting female nurses as is apparent on this thread. I have to question your undressing yourself fully without insuring you have full privacy. I have ALWAYS taken the responsibility for my own privacy. Women cannot expect privacy Anywhere, why do you think you can and that everything should stop until you are satisfied? I don't agree with your comments.
You don't threaten me, annoy me more than anything. Medicine will always be here and you will always need it. You paying for insurance for your employees, does not move me the least. It means nothing in the full scheme of things.
Live and learn. It seems you are on a learning curve. I am sure you will ask for the curtain to be closed next time BEFORE you get naked.
How about if I go to a site for military, and start accusing and spouting off? I don't think that would fly, as your post here isn't either.
On that end, stay safe. You and your commrades remain in our prayers and will continue to do so.
Signed, A Kidney Stone Survivor
Hello Levita,
I'm confused by your anger towards the military. The OP [Muscleman], or his original post was unrelated to the military. I [MagRedC5 username & one of the Mods here], on the otherhand am active duty military. But I certainly NEVER threatened YOU. So, please in future post make sure who you are replying to, and that you are doing so with some degree of accuracy. ;)
Just one more thing Levita. As privacy is so ingrained in our constitutional rights so is the freedom of the press. Many brave people gave up their life so people like you and I can enjoy these rights.
With all due respect to you ,women should get respect as well
for their privacy issues. Everyone who visits a medical facility should be
given due respect for their dignity and privacy issues. I can only speak for
my experiences as a man in a medical facility.
Muscleman wrote:Essentially, what you are saying in essence is that privacy is the sole
responsibility of the patient. That there should be signs posted
throughout every medical facility stating in effect that " you are held
accountable and for insuring your own privacy." Despite your state of mind
or level of pain. I am not a medically trained person. My background is in Business and Computer Science. I've never been a patient before in my life. Ever! Therefore, I had no idea what to expect.
As people we do have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Our government
guarantees it. It's called the 4th amendment.
I think it is reasonable that all people work together as well as each individual to ensure each of us are protected and are able to enjoy all the freedoms that we do. If I walk down a dark alley at night, alone in a city and get mugged do I blame the police for not patrolling and protecting me? No, I don't; I can't. Again, regretful that you (Muscleman) experienced privacy issues while in the hospital, but are we not all responsible, at least to some degree for our own privacy and protection of self? Nurses do incredibly hard and stressful work - I am sure your privacy was not intentionally violated.
And what about the 'suits'? Who were they? When you noticed them why would you not say something at that point? I understand pain and perception...I just had major reconstructive surgery on my shoulder after tearing it to shreds. While I sat in the surgery area I had to ask for them to close my curtain after one of the residents left and I was on pain meds, in pain and naked except for the TED hose and blankets! I understand about wanting privacy. I don't understand why you are so angry at the rest of the hard-working, highly skilled and educated professionals that you are conversing with.
I won't try to speak for Levita but I believe I read her post a little differently. I don't think she's knocking the military but making a hypothetical example. How would it be received if she were to go to a site dedicated for servicemen and women and made broadbased negative and/or accusatory comments against the military and it's practice? It wouldn't be tolerated. I think she's comparing that with what she and the rest of us, feel that Muscleman did on this site dedicated to nursing personnel.
BTW,
How many others are getting a little tired of the sniping? This seems to be a no-win subject. At this point, I'm more interested in the martial arts discussion.
Ricu wrote:BTW,
How many others are getting a little tired of the sniping? This seems to be a no-win subject. At this point, I'm more interested in the martial arts discussion.
R
Ok, martial arts is not one of my favorite topics, but I agree, that I too am growing tired of feeling accused and having to defend myself on a nursing forum...How about those Patriots??? :4:
cougarnurse wrote:A little off topic here, but I believe Levita just chose the military bit as an example.
Thanks for keeping the thread civilized!
'Cat'
My apologies for not taking Levita's military bit as merely an example. I took her military comments as a direct attack towards me. It should be obvious that I'm an active duty Army nurse deployed OCONUS, which happens to be in Iraq for 15 months.
I can see why the OP is upset. None of us were actually there. I don't know if he should have demanded the curtain be pulled shut, or should that be automatic. I don't know! I was not there! I do know the OP has used transference against some of the nurses here that have tried to explain from a nurses viewpoint. I certainly don't approve of his continued slight against nurses, especially my fellow Mods here.
I do think it is odd for nurses to slam the OP when this will cause him to have even more dissent. We have all had difficult patient assignments that we still had to provide nursing care.
MagRedC5 wrote:I took her military comments as a direct attack towards me. It should be obvious that I'm an active duty Army nurse deployed OCONUS, which happens to be in Iraq for 15 months.
Her comments weren't an attack on ANYONE, including the military. She was simply saying that it wouldn't be tolerated for someone to do that on a military site, as an example. She made no negative or derogatory remarks about the military.
And it should NOT be obvious that you are an active duty army nurse deployed OCONUS (I have no idea what that even is) in Iraq for 15 months.
How would that be obvious to ANYONE, let alone a new poster, unless you come out and say it in every thread right off the bat. You are assuming and expecting way too much, and jumping to conclusions.
Aaron C. wrote:Her comments weren't an attack on ANYONE, including the military. She was simply saying that it wouldn't be tolerated for someone to do that on a military site, as an example. She made no negative or derogatory remarks about the military.
And it should NOT be obvious that you are an active duty army nurse deployed OCONUS (I have no idea what that even is) in Iraq for 15 months.
How would that be obvious to ANYONE, let alone a new poster, unless you come out and say it in every thread right off the bat. You are assuming and expecting way too much, and jumping to conclusions.
I see nothing about you being in Iraq. Is it the AD Army Nurse part?
I just realized AD could mean Active Duty. Surely you don't expect people to see the letters AD and equate that to you serving Active Duty in Iraq. That's a lot of putting together of information, that and the rest...
