what are some of your attitudes concerning RN's Vs. LPN's? If you are a registered nurse, do you like working with LPN's? Same question to the LPN's.. do you enjoy working with RN's? If you are a registered nurse do you feel "above" the LPN and why? If you are a LPN do you feel inadequate when you are working alongside a registered nurse? I get the feeling in my workplace that no matter what you are, LPN's get treated better because of the fact that most of them are older and have many years of experience behind them. Why is it that many LPN's didnt go on to become RN's? Just a few questions I would like to get your ideas on. Thanks ahead of time for replying.
One of my co-workers, when I was also and LPN, was trying to get her RN through an online course. She said that she couldn't afford to go to regular nursing school, as she was the primary income for her family. This LPN seemed to have a chip on her shoulder, towards everyone, and I felt it towards me when I graduated with my RN. Most of the LPN's that I have had the honor of working with have been invaluable resources, simply because of the length of time they have been nurses. I notice that if you treat them with the same respect as you would another RN, you will usually have a very nice working relationship. There is one that I am working with now that I would rather have beside me, than an RN whose work I typically have to go back and check. (OB nurse, not able to perform vag exams.)
****o everyone, this is my first time on a forum. On the LPN vs RN position, here are my views.
I am 40 years old and graduated from a bi level program in May of 2005. I was an LPN and worked during my RN school year. I know a bit about being both. I also feel fortunate to have been both.
I work in a small town hospital with just a few RN's and several LPN's. My duties are usually what an RN does in a small hospital, I cover ER, I take patients on the floor, I go to the pharmacy for everyone. I will sit in a room and make sure a patient is allright whether that patient is mine or not. We all help each other. In my mind, there is no classification between LPN and RN when I am at work. We all know what our jobs are and what we can and cannot do. I have great respect for the LPN's that I work with. I have not worked with an LPN yet who did not know her boundaries and hasn't come to me to ask for help in situations. I do keep my ears and eyes out for problems and try to know as much as I can about the patients in their care, but I am there for support. They know that I don't play the lpn vs Rn game (how silly).
We all are there for each other and the patients. Oh, lets not forget the most important part of the health care team, THE CNA! We as nurses need to respect the CNA's and help them out. They are the first ones to notice that our patients are changing and we are alerted. I learn the most about a patient by going in with my CNA's and helping them with patient care. They are great.
Thanks
Suzie Reynolds in Kansas
Hey, Suzie; I am (mostly) in agreement with everything you say in your post. I completely agree that teamwork gets the job done much more efficiently. The only drawback to working alongside the LPN's in our hospital is that we have to do all their IV meds in addition to our own assignments. I also know of one LPN who lost his license for working outside his scope of practice. In the other hospital where I worked as an LPN while finishing schooling for my ADN, the poor LPN's were assigned 9 pts to the RN's 4 pt. load; I felt that this was not only unfair, but unsafe.....I don't care what the title is, I try to show respect to whomever I work with and expect the same treatment. It just makes sense to work together and leave the cattiness and superiority out of the whole equation........
there is a long discussion someplace on here about LPNs and RNs. I work with 5 LPNs on my unit and all of them are wonderful except 1 who I wouldn't want to take care of my dog. She's nice enough just not the brightest bulb but then there are a couple of RNs on my unit that I wouldn't want taking care of me either. Our hospital does pay tuition 1 of the LPNs is interested in getting her RN the not bright one flunked out of the RN program twice. the others like what they do.
I' am not an RN nor am I an LPN but if you ask me, I would say that the people see life or view life in different way or one of the reason's why they some never go on to be RNs while others do. But one must remember that an LPNs job is totally different from an RNs job but they still must work together inorder to achieve "total health care." But I would guess that since there jobs are different and maybe a little more similar, I would think that since an Rn is Higher than an Lpn the Rn might seem a little more intemidating to an Lpn as would an Msn to an Rn right?
Army Medical Centers use both civilian & military LPNs in their ICUs. IMHO, it works just fine for those LPNs that are strong in critical care nursing. I've noticed most, if not all the civilian LPNs I've worked with at both Brooke Army Medical Center & Madigan Army Medical Center were prior service military LPNs. These LPNs cannot start blood product infusions, do admissions, etc. w/o RN co-sign. However, the LPNs are well appreciated in the Army ICUs. BTW, the Army LPNs [91WM6] are enlisted, whereas the active duty RNs are officers.
IMHO, the ADN programs have better opportunities for hands on clinical experience vs. BSN, or LPN programs. However, I've been up the educational ladder; AAS in CST, AAS in Nursing [ADN], and RN-BSN program. The bottom line is what one does with their experience after the program of choice. I've worked with some awesome LPNs [especially in the Army Medical Department], as well as ADN & BSN educated nurses.
Skymoma wrote:I' am not an RN nor am I an LPN but if you ask me, I would say that the people see life or view life in different way or one of the reason's why they some never go on to be RNs while others do. But one must remember that an LPNs job is totally different from an RNs job but they still must work together inorder to achieve "total health care." But I would guess that since there jobs are different and maybe a little more similar, I would think that since an Rn is Higher than an Lpn the Rn might seem a little more intemidating to an Lpn as would an Msn to an Rn right?
I think intemidation is a personal thing. I have a ADN then traditional school on to BSN choose not to have MSN but I'm not too intemidated by anyone because of the letters behind their name but then I have a direct type of personality and it's not hard for me to speak up about what I think. That has had to develop over years for me maybe it's just an age thing or I hid any intemidation for so long I no longer am.
I was a line medic in the infantry for 5 years and now I work as a patient hold team leader. It is an LPN position and I am currently working on my LPN. I think the nursing field is an awesome career field to be in and and as said many times before as a healthcare person you should love what you do. Medical folks work hard enough as it is and LPNs and RNs work very hard.
i've been both an lpn and rn. i've been around rn that judge lpn like they're better than them. the only diff between lpn and rn school is one seamester of management courses. clinicals might be diff for rn but you don't learn in clinicals you just experience or try something a few times. clinical skills are learned on the job through repetition.
WELL, HERE IS HOW I SEE THINGS. SOMETIMES RN'S GET ON THEIR HIGH HORSE AND TALK DOWN TO THE LPN'S.I HAVE EVEN HAD OCCASION TO SEE AN RN THROW SOMETHING AT AN LPN BECAUSE THE LPN REFUSED TO PERFORM A TASK OUT OF HER SCOPE OF PRACTICE.I HAVE HAD SEVERAL DISCUSSIONS WITH NURSES WHO BELIEVE THAT THEIR EXTRA EDUCATION PUTS THEM AT THE ADVANTAGE OVER A LONG EXPERIENCED LPN.SORRY, I WOULD RATHER WORK WITH AN LPN WITH 20 ODD YEARS OF PRACTICE OVER A NEW GRAD WITH AN ATTITUDE ANYDAY!
OVER DINNER YESTERDAY, ONE OF OUR NEW BSN'S WAS DISCUSSING SOME OF THE SKILLS SHE HAS YET TO PERFORM.SOME OF WHICH THE LPN ARE HIGHLY SKILLED AND TESTED ON. I THINK THE PROBLEM IS LACK OF RESPECT PEOPLE SHOW ONE ANOTHER IN GENERAL.WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO MENTORING?:confused:
When it was time for me to choose a nursing school, there were no LPN programs nearby, just RN or BSN.
I figured, if I was going to go through the torture of nursing school and work my tail off, better to do the RN just once and be done with it.
I take my hat off to anyone that can go back to school for an RN after they've been working for a while, it is very difficult.
If your ultimate goal is an RN I'd say go straight to it. You'll earn more in the long run and have more career options.
If your immediate goal is to start working, and an LPN is faster, that's an economic decision you have to make.
The fact is that RN/LPN work together inevitably. Life is easier for everyone if you accept the fact that there are different rules for what each can/cannot do. It doesn't make one better than the other, just a different scope of practice.
Accept that, treat eachother with respect and your lives will be much easier.
shellbell wrote:WELL, HERE IS HOW I SEE THINGS. SOMETIMES RN'S GET ON THEIR HIGH HORSE AND TALK DOWN TO THE LPN'S.I HAVE EVEN HAD OCCASION TO SEE AN RN THROW SOMETHING AT AN LPN BECAUSE THE LPN REFUSED TO PERFORM A TASK OUT OF HER SCOPE OF PRACTICE.I HAVE HAD SEVERAL DISCUSSIONS WITH NURSES WHO BELIEVE THAT THEIR EXTRA EDUCATION PUTS THEM AT THE ADVANTAGE OVER A LONG EXPERIENCED LPN.SORRY, I WOULD RATHER WORK WITH AN LPN WITH 20 ODD YEARS OF PRACTICE OVER A NEW GRAD WITH AN ATTITUDE ANYDAY!
OVER DINNER YESTERDAY, ONE OF OUR NEW BSN'S WAS DISCUSSING SOME OF THE SKILLS SHE HAS YET TO PERFORM.SOME OF WHICH THE LPN ARE HIGHLY SKILLED AND TESTED ON. I THINK THE PROBLEM IS LACK OF RESPECT PEOPLE SHOW ONE ANOTHER IN GENERAL.WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO MENTORING?:confused:
Shellbell - This is just a friendly reminder that all CAPS on www msg brds is considered to be a form of yelling. Please, do a self-edit... thanks!
BTW, I can appreciate your frustration. We are all team members in the quest of excellent patient care. An RN should never c/o of disrespectful treatment by an MD, then turn around and do same to an LPN, or CA.
:)
nursinghumor wrote:When it was time for me to choose a nursing school, there were no LPN programs nearby, just RN or BSN.
I figured, if I was going to go through the torture of nursing school and work my tail off, better to do the RN just once and be done with it.
I take my hat off to anyone that can go back to school for an RN after they've been working for a while, it is very difficult.
If your ultimate goal is an RN I'd say go straight to it. You'll earn more in the long run and have more career options.
If your immediate goal is to start working, and an LPN is faster, that's an economic decision you have to make.
The fact is that RN/LPN work together inevitably. Life is easier for everyone if you accept the fact that there are different rules for what each can/cannot do. It doesn't make one better than the other, just a different scope of practice.
Accept that, treat each other with respect and your lives will be much easier.
Andrew, just wanted to concur with your post, which was an excellent read! You made some an excellent points. I had to go the long route [AAS in Surg Tech, AAS in Nursing (ADN), and RN-BSN] D/T being a single-parent, as well as other pertinent reasons. Nonetheless, I encourage all those that can to go straight for their BSN.
I didn't go back to school until I was 37 years old and also took the long road to RN. I started as a CMA/CNA/HHA then LPN and RN. I have no problem working with LPN's, in fact I'd rather work with an LPN than some BSN's. A good LPN is invaluable as a team mate. But, note the word "good'. An LPN with 20 years experience does not make an RN, the same way a CNA with 20 years experience does not make an LPN. The only dilemma I face is when team members want to work out of their scope of practice. I always try to help the really good staff see the advantage of continuing their education. Don't sell yourself short. If you are that good, get your RN, but if you don't have the credentials, don't do the work. It won't be appreciated in the long run, and it could cause trouble for you and your team mates. Always practice within the scope of your license. And if that license's scope is too restrictive, go back to school and get the credentials you need. Nursing is one profession that does not promote because of "on the job" training.
Skymoma wrote:I' am not an RN nor am I an LPN but if you ask me, I would say that the people see life or view life in different way or one of the reason's why they some never go on to be RNs while others do. But one must remember that an LPNs job is totally different from an RNs job but they still must work together inorder to achieve "total health care." But I would guess that since there jobs are different and maybe a little more similar, I would think that since an Rn is Higher than an Lpn the Rn might seem a little more intimidating to an Lpn as would an Msn to an Rn right?
Intimidate: to make timid or fearful esp: to compel or deter by or as if by threats syn bully, browbeat
No, you are wrong regards to intimidation. I [a BSN & 1LT AMEDD officer] will never bully an LVN/LPN, which is an enlisted member of the AMEDD. Nor, will I [a company grade ANC officer] fear a field grade officer, which may either be an MSN, or MD AMEDD officer. IMHO, respect should go both ways regards to subordinates - superiors - subordinates in the world of professional health care both military & civilian. I will admit there are those that misuse/abuse position of authority, which I hope is in the minority.
WOW!! This is a touchy subject from my point of view. I have been an LPN for 24 years and I feel as though I should have the respect of other nurses and for the most part I do,but.....there are those RNs that believe they are above a LPN no matter what. Don't get me wrong, I respect a person for furthering their education but the title of RN does not automatically place the person above me. I respect the title but the person has to personally earn my respect and that is done through actions not initials. You see, I work with RNs that believe LPN stands for one of two things: LPN:Let's Play Nurse or Little Pissed-off Nurse. With that kind of attitude against the LPNs, what do they expect in return,Respect...afraid not!! If they could just get past the initials and see the experience as a positive factor; I think we'd all be better nurses. The bottom line is , regardless of your title, we are all there for one reason........the welfare of the patient. The patient is really the only issue in my eyes!!
lucky you, you have a degree I dont think I will get my degree
I' am only taking simple classes like Chemistry and already it is too hard because the instructor will not go according to the book and he continues to keep lying to me why I havent the slightest idea.
Its only a survey.
How can any one take there jobs seriously when they meet instructors like this one?
Skymoma wrote:lucky you, you have a degree I dont think I will get my degree
I' am only taking simple classes like Chemistry and already it is too hard because the instructor will not go according to the book and he continues to keep lying to me why I havent the slightest idea.
Its only a survey.
How can any one take there jobs seriously when they meet instructors like this one?
Nursing does not mean any thing when you spend years in college and have to deal with an idiot of professor?
How many of you have had to deal with some thing so stupid as this?
sunchy wrote:Hi I am sunchy
RN vs LPN has always being an issue but the RN has the major responsibility therefore the RN is in charge and sets the rules.
I agree. The RN has the ultimate responsibility for the residents/patients and everything is on his/her back. I have worked with a 30 year veteran LPN who has a very nasty attitude toward me. She does not like our DON or ADON. Seems she has a problem with people who have a RN degree in general. She is a good nurse, but has a major attitude toward RN's. It makes it hard to work with nurses like that. Our major concern should be the patient, not petty trivial whining.
i'm an rn former lpn. the only diff is the seamester of managemanet classess. as far as being in charge - you call the doctor or 911. i don't think it matters if you're an rn or lpn to do that. in charge of what? a nurse follows orders. you follow the orders of the doctor, physical therapist, occupational therapist, management, facility, state laws, case manager, etc.
I work in a LTC and all the unit supervisors at this point are LPN's. I would much prefer to have an RN with experience in those positions. Much depends on the facility and the education of the staff in whole. The RN's that work our facility I know are very educated as well as have many years experience. However, some choose not to utilize their knowledge. Whether RN or LPN, I believe it depends on attitude and work performance.
what are some of your attitudes concerning RN's Vs. LPN's?
That the energy that some people use to degrade others' career choices would be better used in combating outrageous nurse-pt. ratios, skeleton staffing, and low pay.
If you are a registered nurse, do you like working with LPN's? Same question to the LPN's.. do you enjoy working with RN's?
I enjoy working with nurses, RN or LPN, that are competant and pull their weight.
If you are a LPN do you feel inadequate when you are working alongside a registered nurse?
No way.
I get the feeling in my workplace that no matter what you are, LPN's get treated better because of the fact that most of them are older and have many years of experience behind them.
There is something to be said for experience.
Why is it that many LPN's didnt go on to become RN's?
If most of them had a dime given for everytime they were asked this question, it would have covered the cost of tuition and books. Some don't want to go back to school. Some can't afford it and others had other things that came first in their life.
Where I work, the LPN to RN ratio is usually 5 to 1. However, our nursing staff for any one day is of course reliant on the current patient load. There are usually 2 or 3 RNs on duty on Med/Surg and the rest are LPNs. Recently, the law was changed to allow LPNs to do IV pushes, with additional training, which will take the load off the RNs who, until now, have had to stop what they were doing to give IV meds such as pain meds. We do primary care and except for blood and central lines now, most of us can work independently of each other with occasional requests for help outside the scope of nursing that is required for LPNs.
This is just my opinion (freedom of speech) based on being an LPN and RN over 25 years........I think the LVN/LPN license should be gotten rid of......nurses should be RN's.....some of the other posts here talk about giving LPN's more responsibility and authority with additional training......at some hospitals LPN's can do everything an RN can do......why have LPN's?.......at all?.........LPN/LVN's just drag nursing down.........if the reason is the nursing shortage as in "we can't do without the LPN's because we don't have enough RN's".......convert those LPN programs to RN programs......is the education substandard to an RN education?.......if so then that's another reason not to have LPN's doing RN responsibilities........I see the LPN programs as an easier route to a job.......nursing should be all RN............:39:
NavyJim58 wrote:This is just my opinion (freedom of speech) based on being an LPN and RN over 25 years........I think the LVN/LPN license should be gotten rid of......nurses should be RN's.....some of the other posts here talk about giving LPN's more responsibility and authority with additional training......at some hospitals LPN's can do everything an RN can do......why have LPN's?.......at all?.........LPN/LVN's just drag nursing down.........if the reason is the nursing shortage as in "we can't do without the LPN's because we don't have enough RN's".......convert those LPN programs to RN programs......is the education substandard to an RN education?.......if so then that's another reason not to have LPN's doing RN responsibilities........I see the LPN programs as an easier route to a job.......nursing should be all RN............:39:
You're correct the "line" does become more muddy with responsibilities being farmed out and who can do what with an extra class (ie IV training) I don't think there should be medication aids more then LPN's. I like and respect all of the LPN's I work with (ok all 5 of them) all but 1 would be great RN's only 1 wants to go back to school (the one that wouldn't be great barely made it through LPN school and failed RN twice). I don't think the LPN education is substandard but it's more to the task oriented but then if they go into a hospital setting they do many of the RN tasks or the RN still has to sign off behind them or be responsible...with ADN being 2 years it's really not that much longer and the pay is that much better in the long run.
cassioo wrote:how about some new blood to throw out some new topic to discuss????
Ah! Trap the new kid, eh? Okay...I'm prepared for any eventuality, dabnabit, I'm a NURSE! (and not just a person posing as one...although there is a posing game I play with....uh...never mind.)
Okay: Topics up for Discussion!
1. Who thinks cardiovalvulotomy just ROLLS off the tongue?
2. Do you wonder, as I do, why Kat has a smiley icon with a whip...hmmm. :whipping:
3. What things make you go, "hmmm" (See topic #2 for ideas.)
4. We could start a "I'm a nurse from [insert state/country] and I want to move to [insert state/country] how/why/when/where do I [insert question]" thread. Those are always terribly exciting.
5. Why does TomB have six highly suspect and rumored-to-be interchangeable arms? Hmmm... :39:
6. Is NavyJim "really" in the navy, or is he just "posing as naval personnel?" Is NavyJim REALLY just part of a now-defunct disco band?
7. Is Busy-Bee really that busy, or is she taking Prozac like the rest of us, in which case, she should call herself "Laid-back Butterfly?" Does cougarnurse REALLY have a cougar, or is it, in truth, just an anemic goldfish?
Oh the tangled web we weave....
8. Why is Peptol Bismol pink? :39:
9. Why do people insist on dressing their dogs?
10. Who thinks Sierra_LPN should be given his decoder ring NOW for typing all these useless words instead of doing something sensible?
I think Sierra poses some very good questions that makes you go hmmmmm... I wondered about that whip myself. Maybe Tom should get the whip. Wish I'd have thought of making clothing for dogs.
Let's start with a little orphan annie decoder slider before you get the ring though:
I have been an LPN, now an RN. I love working with the LPN's that we have on our floor. They are awesome. They have all the same responsibilities as the RN's minus charge duties and spiking blood. They can run blood just not spike it. So crazy!
I don't regret getting my RN for one minute. My pay immediately almost doubled. It has opened many new doors for me. Doors I wouldn't have been able to get through with my LPN. I do have to be totally honest and tell you I feel as though I am more respected as an RN. Again, this is crazy, but it is how it is.
BigRedNurse wrote:Hey, Suzie; I am (mostly) in agreement with everything you say in your post. I completely agree that teamwork gets the job done much more efficiently. The only drawback to working alongside the LPN's in our hospital is that we have to do all their IV meds in addition to our own assignments. I also know of one LPN who lost his license for working outside his scope of practice. In the other hospital where I worked as an LPN while finishing schooling for my ADN, the poor LPN's were assigned 9 pts to the RN's 4 pt. load; I felt that this was not only unfair, but unsafe.....I don't care what the title is, I try to show respect to whomever I work with and expect the same treatment. It just makes sense to work together and leave the cattiness and superiority out of the whole equation........
from virgil rn
way to go, team work is key no matter what the title. I was an lpn for 10 years and now an rn for almost 2 years.when asked how long I have been a nurse ,my response is 12 years. when they get specific I do say I have been an rn for 2.I was a nursing assistant for 3 years before my lpn years,and all I have to say is that the more we respect each other and work together the better care our patients will get.
1. Who thinks cardiovalvulotomy just ROLLS off the tongue?
2. Do you wonder, as I do, why Kat has a smiley icon with a whip...hmmm. :whipping:
3. What things make you go, "hmmm" (See topic #2 for ideas.)
4. We could start a "I'm a nurse from [insert state/country] and I want to move to [insert state/country] how/why/when/where do I [insert question]" thread. Those are always terribly exciting.
5. Why does TomB have six highly suspect and rumored-to-be interchangeable arms? Hmmm... :39:
6. Is NavyJim "really" in the navy, or is he just "posing as naval personnel?" Is NavyJim REALLY just part of a now-defunct disco band?
7. Is Busy-Bee really that busy, or is she taking Prozac like the rest of us, in which case, she should call herself "Laid-back Butterfly?" Does cougarnurse REALLY have a cougar, or is it, in truth, just an anemic goldfish?
Oh the tangled web we weave....
8. Why is Peptol Bismol pink? :39:
9. Why do people insist on dressing their dogs?
10. Who thinks Sierra_LPN should be given his decoder ring NOW for typing all these useless words instead of doing something sensible?
Sierra, you crack me up. I love your posts. BTW, I can handle six whips - one for each arm. They are very useful when trying to get a HD patient to remain on their machine for the entire prescribed treatment time. :-)
I have been fortunate and all of the LPNs that I've worked with have been excellent nurses. Many had more experience than myself and I went to them with questions, etc.
I think all nurses should be RNs. And that's NOT a slam against LPNs. Somehow they should be grandfathered into RN positions (based on experience and maybe a series of inservices). They should discontinue LPN programs and offer only two or four year RN programs. It is basically the same job now with few exceptions - am I right?
TomB wrote:Sierra, you crack me up. I love your posts. BTW, I can handle six whips - one for each arm. They are very useful when trying to get a HD patient to remain on their machine for the entire prescribed treatment time. :-)
I have been fortunate and all of the LPNs that I've worked with have been excellent nurses. Many had more experience than myself and I went to them with questions, etc.
I think all nurses should be RNs. And that's NOT a slam against LPNs. Somehow they should be grandfathered into RN positions (based on experience and maybe a series of inservices). They should discontinue LPN programs and offer only two or four year RN programs. It is basically the same job now with few exceptions - am I right?
I agree with you Tom.....I take a lot of criticism for my views on this but i'm not alone in my thinking (thanks to Tom).......I was an LPN also......but as an administrator I have stopped hiring LPN's/LVN's at my hospital's.......many other peoples posts have pointed to the same issue.....LPN's do just about everything RN's do with very few exceptions.....why not have an all RN workforce?.......if it wasn't for the nursing shortage we wouldn't be having this discussion.....the LPN numbers have been steadily going down around the country in hospitals.....they are still useful and needed in nursing homes and doctors offices.......with the "2" year RN programs.....why not become an RN and not a LPN........"issue"......and its real........if you can't cut it as an RN in school but you become an LPN in one short year but do all the work of an RN.........????? does anyone else see the problem? When I suggested closing the LPN program at a local college recently at a meeting (i'm on the board) the LPN program director became enraged and almost attacked me.....fortunately she is 5 ft 3 and weighs 120 lbs and i'm 6 foot and weight 220.......but she scared me........its easier to get LPN instructors......everything about it is easier and that's the problem.....we need more ADN or BSN instructors and space......
