Excelsior students may not get licensed

I know 3 excelsior grads at my facility in California - One is a highly motivated though inexperienced nurse with good knowledge base. The two others couldn't find their butts in the dark with both hands and a flashlight. I am sure that Excelsior has graduated some fine nurses but the fact is that the California State board stopped accepting Excelsior grads due to the overwhelming number that were simply not prepared to be safe effective nurses. The main problem is the lack of clinical hours. One of the nurses I know actually sent a patient from our psych facility to the ER for a BP of 140/90? Another called 911 for a sleeping patient that she had not even walked down the hall to assess.

Again I am sure that there are good nurses coming out of Excelsior - I've met one - but I believe that the state boards have a realistic concerns with regard to graduates of this program.

hppy

The lack of concurrent Clinicals with Theory is what is stopping Excelsior in Illinois.

There was a video about the whole thing somewhere....wasn't sure how long the link would be valid, though.

Why not seek licensure in another state, such as Tennessee, who offers a multi-state license, then apply for reciprocity in Georgia?

I had asked someone at Illinois' BON about that......they want at least 2 years worked in another state before considering the licensure.

Unsure how the Georgia bit will turn out. If/when I see anything, will post it.

The video refered to the lack of concurrent clinicals, of that I am sure.

I will check with the TN Board of Nursing about the requirements; because Chattanooga, TN is right on the georgia line, and as a Flight Nurse, when I was with a Chattanooga based chopper (Cannot mention name due to legal reasons and non-disclosure), we had to get reciprocity for our Paramedic licenses with georgia, as our RN was multi-state and worked just fine.

I will put in a call to the state and see what I come up with.

I have left a message with the state director, and will post the info as soon as I hear something. As far as I know, TN simply requires that an individual completes a nursing program(and yes, TN accepts Exlcelsior). Once you are a TN RN, you have a license to practice in multiple states, which means nothing for Georgia, a non-compact licensure state. However, what this does mean is that you can apply for reciprocity with the Georgia Board of Nursing, based on the fact that you have passed the NCLEX-RN and have proven competency with the state of TN, by receipt of a license.

So far the way I am reading it, is that the school must be approved by the Georgia board of nursing.

I am on Georgia's Dept of Nursing website, and will be getting complete details and posting my findings.

While I am doing this, I ask that you all sign a petition found here: Fight for the Rights of Excelsior Nursing Grads

which is to be presented to the Georgia Board of Nursig upon the completion of a set number of signatures.

Sounds good.

As far as I know, CA and IL are the only two states with legislation over this. Georgia, not sure yet. 3 states out of 50?

Taken from the Excelsior site Excelsior College Nursing Requirements - iStudySmart :

Canada
Canada Nurses: Only LPN's qualify for the Excelsior College program if they reside in Canada.

Alabama
Alabama State Board evaluates Excelsior graduates on a case by case basis. Since 2000, any graduates with significant hours of RN experience may apply for endorsement and possibly be accepted for endorsement by the Alabama State Board. Contact the state board for details.

Arizona
Excelsior students will have to complete 120 hour precepted experience set up by Excelsior College, after finishing the associate nursing degree requirements. Then they may apply for the NCLEX-RN. Students may endorse into the state with 960 RN hours. (9/2006)

California
All Excelsior ADN graduates who enrolled on or after December 6, 2003, may apply for endorsement with an unencumbered RN license and will be considered by the California Board of Nursing on a case by case basis. Contact the state board for details.

Colorado
Colorado ASN Graduates sitting for boards: Anyone registered before January 1, 2006 will be grandfathered in with no changes to them as long as they keep their registration with Excelsior active by paying the applicable maintenance fee each year. Those who complete an Associate Degree and are not LPNs will need 750 additional clinical hours. Those who complete an Associate Degree and are LPNs will need 350 additional clinical hours. The state of CO is currently working on a plan to make those additional clinical hours available. (9/2005)

Florida
Florida State Board accepts all LPNs. Non-LPNs doing the RN program through Excelsior College can still endorse into Florida, however the State Board will now require 2 years of RN experience outside the state of Florida.

Georgia
Georgia State Board only accept Excelsior College graduates through reciprocity.

Illinois
All graduates must endorse in with 2 years of RN experience.

Kansas
Kansas Residents: Check with the Kansas State Board of Nursing about additional clinical hours needed.

Kentucky
This board is requiring that all graduates of all nursing schools do a 120 hour preceptorship upon completion of the nursing program.

Louisiana
LPNs or graduates with 50% traditional nursing school clinical hours who complete the Excelsior College nursing program may apply for the RN examination. All non-LPN graduates must endorse in with 6 months RN experience.

Maryland
All graduates enrolled on or before July 24, 2006 and graduate before December 31, 2007 will be eligible to apply for the RN examination or endorsement. Contact the state board for details.

North Dakota
All graduates may endorse in with 400 hours of RN experience

Oklahoma
For initial licensure, students are required to pass two 30-hour precepted experiences in Psych and OB administered by Excelsior College before graduation.

Vermont
Vermont Residents and Excelsior College: You will need to take your state boards outside the state of Vermont and work 480 clinical hours (roughly 12 weeks) before you can transfer your RN licensure into the state of Vermont. (11/2006)

Virginia
Effective May, 2008: Virginia Board of Nursing has passed a new regulation that says anyone not enrolled with Excelsior College by April 2 of 2008 will not be allowed to sit for state boards. Those who were enrolled as of April 2, 2008, will have to complete their degree by December 31, 2009.

Washington
Only LPNs with 200 hour precepted experience set up through a Washington Nursing Commission approved facility may apply for examination. Graduates who were originally LPNs may endorse in with minimum 200 hours RN experience. All non-LPN graduates with RN experience may be denied endorsement and will have to appeal any denial.

Yes, it would appear that the solution is to take your NCLEX in Tennessee. There is a Pearson Vue in Chattanooga, right on the Catoosa County line.

TN County Map:
http://www.apsu.edu/amatlas/alternate/FIG7.GIF

Hamilton county is Chattanooga.

Apply for your Tennessee licensure, then transfer it over to Georgia for reciprocity.

The distance between Chattanooga and Atlanta approximates: 119 mi – about 1 hour 57 mins at 70 mph (Interstate Speeds).

The common cost of the TN NCLEX Approximates:

$300 for the NCLEX Exam
$65 for the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation Background Check.

Remember, you can take your licensure exam at ANY Pearson Vue that offers NCLEX-RN.

An added benefit is that a TN RN License is Multi-State, and while it will not be compact in Georgia(meaning you will have to apply for GA Reciprocity rather than practicing with your TN LIcense), you can practice in all other compact license states without the need of applying for reciprocity.

Therefore, by taking your NCLEX and having a TN RN License, you meet the requirements for reciprocity in Georgia, based on having successfully passed the NCLEX.

Yet.....the GaBON states on the web page that the new law states "During the 2008 session of the Georgia legislature, a bill was passed that requires all applicants
for licensure by endorsement to have graduated from a nursing education program approved by
the Georgia Board of Nursing or which meets criteria similar to, and not less stringent, than
those established by the Board. This bill went into effect on July 1, 2008 and is codified in
O.C.G.A. §43-26-7(c). " http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2...ext/hb1041.htm

Whatever that means. :confused: The way things sound down there, they (GaBON) will pitch a fit.

Guess we'll have to wait and see. I hope someone in this situation would drop by and let us know what's going on.

I can't help but wonder if the GA Board of Nursing has even reviewed the NCLEX pass rates for Excelsior. We had to do this before our second chopper was put in(which responds to Northern Georgia). They accepted our TBR institutions just fine.

It is such a shame that they are doing this. These individuals have busted their butts just like we have to get their degree.

How about instead of going through all of this crap, all of you Georgia Excelsior students come live with me, pursue a TN license, and come to work in a TN Hospital. (Im sure I have enough popcorn)

O.C.G.A. §43-26-7(c).
(c) An applicant for licensure by endorsement shall:
(1) Submit a completed written application and fee;
(2) Have passed a board recognized licensing examination following graduation from the nursing education program;
(3) Submit verification of initial and current licensure in any other licensing jurisdiction administering a board recognized licensing examination;
(4) Have practiced nursing as a registered professional nurse for a period of time as determined by the board or have graduated from a nursing education program within the four years immediately preceding the date of the application; and
(5) Meet such other criteria as established by the board.

The state of Georgia, originally founded as a debtor colony in January of 1778, does not really have a good track record with regard to interpretation of the law. It is for this reason tbat I am not going to make any inferences on this particular code annotated. However, a friend of mine, who is a licensed attorney, will.

Notwithstanding the provisions of O.C.G.A. §43-26-7(c), RNMedicTN, hereafter known as "Nurse", will not let his nursing brothers and sisters be treated this way, having busted their butts to get to where they are.

and you can take that one to the bank.

hppygr8ful wrote:I know 3 excelsior grads at my facility in California - One is a highly motivated though inexperienced nurse with good knowledge base. The two others couldn't find their butts in the dark with both hands and a flashlight. I am sure that Excelsior has graduated some fine nurses but the fact is that the California State board stopped accepting Excelsior grads due to the overwhelming number that were simply not prepared to be safe effective nurses. The main problem is the lack of clinical hours. One of the nurses I know actually sent a patient from our psych facility to the ER for a BP of 140/90? Another called 911 for a sleeping patient that she had not even walked down the hall to assess.

Again I am sure that there are good nurses coming out of Excelsior - I've met one - but I believe that the state boards have a realistic concerns with regard to graduates of this program.

hppy

Thanks for the giggles, that was a very amusing description ;). However, I graduated from a brick and mortar college for the CA LVN program, and they were a scary bunch. Reading comprehension testing was a requirement to get in. One of our students tested at a 3rd grade comprehension level and got in! Thankfully, after a semester and a half, having to go to the Learning Center to have the tests read to her, (she was of normal intelligence otherwise, it appeared) she rightfully weeded herself out of the class, realizing perhaps she couldn't have CNA's etc read all her paperwork to her. She would NEVER get past the terrible handwriting in charts!

One very cute little blond had such a poor command of standard English that she accused the teachers of effing her over and writing the tests so that she would fail. She used F a lot. And openly castigated the teachers. I was pretty shocked that the teachers remained so silent. I know in the old days, there were behavior standards for nursing students.
Several others in the class were rude and nasty and uncompassionate. On our last clinical day, our 5 student group went out for pizza, and a family near our table asked to move (with their young children) because 2 of the students kept making jokes about who was the biggest "BJ Queen". We were in uniform. I found out from the clinical instructor that last day that we were expected to discipline each other! Right! Like I had authority over them!
One of these girls went on to get her RN. She had often slept through class, snoring loudly, and tipping her chair making a farting sound and throwing candy penises around the room at people. I don't know how it was she got high scores on tests, except that she absorbed the facts while asleep. She did though, but I later worked at a facility that had fired her the year before, and the staff still talked about how she spit in other staff's food and bragged about it, she left the facility at night, being the only nurse on duty, and let the CNA's get her blood sugar readings for her. She had also urinated in coworker's beer at a party and later bragged about it. Yes, folks, this may be your nurse someday. Be afraid, be very afraid.
I am afraid that nursing standards are way down all over the place. I only can attest to the fact that I was a CNA for 10 years and gained valuable experience from it, that when I first worked as an LVN, if I didn't have my CNA experience I would have taken much longer to get to the comfort level enough to use common sense. I have to look back at the "old school" nurses I worked with in the 80's and their professional examples. Those were the days you had to wear a hat and certain shoes. And white, no exceptions. Many wore dresses. But the best was that, when my patients had a problem, I learned new things from my nurses, I listened and I obeyed their directions.

The scary thing about the Excelsior program (which I will be using in the LPN to RN upgrade) is that they even allow a non experienced nonCNA to use their program. That really is the hard part. CNA experience is very valuable.

I also for myself, hope and expect a reasonable outcome for myself, because I have been a CNA, I have been a practicing LPN/LVN for 5 years and lucky me I have worked under some sharp LVN's and RN's that themselves have also taught me a lot. By helping with procedures that are outside of my scope, I get to have an inservice. I have learned that there is soooo much that my nursing classes (brick and mortar college) did not explain or teach me, they kept telling us, you'll learn this on the job. That goes for IV training, charting. etc. So I ask, if I was going to have to learn all this on the job anyway, why did I have to pay them? Oh I know, someone convinced a legislator somewhere to stick it on an earmark somewhere so the schools could make more money. Yeah, that's it.

hppygr8ful wrote:I know 3 excelsior grads at my facility in California - One is a highly motivated though inexperienced nurse with good knowledge base. The two others couldn't find their butts in the dark with both hands and a flashlight. I am sure that Excelsior has graduated some fine nurses but the fact is that the California State board stopped accepting Excelsior grads due to the overwhelming number that were simply not prepared to be safe effective nurses. The main problem is the lack of clinical hours. One of the nurses I know actually sent a patient from our psych facility to the ER for a BP of 140/90? Another called 911 for a sleeping patient that she had not even walked down the hall to assess.

Again I am sure that there are good nurses coming out of Excelsior - I've met one - but I believe that the state boards have a realistic concerns with regard to graduates of this program.

hppy

"The two others couldn't find their butts in the dark with both hands and a flashlight."

Oh my goodness! That is funny and I must use this....hehe!

A bit off topic, but right now, I am convulsing over the same comment. =))

Am sure we all know co-workers like that......

Glad I made you all laugh

Funny thing about all of these charming anecdotes is that I could say equally as much about many baccelaureate graduates that I've worked with and/oriented. We like to think that a conventional program is the only way that someone will accrue the necessary knowledge and experience to prepare for a nursing career but it is not. Be careful about what criteria you use when judging your nursing colleagues.

signed,

A Regent's college (now Excelsior University) alumnus; Affiliate Faculty member for student orientation in critical care.

ASN, RN, RRT, CCRN currently enrolled in an accelerated BSN

I didn't mean to insult anyone that's why I kept my reference specific to people I had worked with. As I said one one the three excelsior grads I worked with was an excellent if somewhat inexperienced nurse (to be expected from a new grad from any program to be sure). The other two didn't seem to have a good knowledge base nor did they care to learn. Granted I have worked with many "brick and mortor" school nurses who left much to be desired. I myself am far from perfect at my craft. I always say the day I stop learning is the day I hang up my nursing shoes.

As I said I am sure excelsior has graduated some fine nurses in the past and will continue to do so. But as with any educational experience it's less about the school and more about the individual student. It's just interesting to me that so many states are stepping away from the excelsior program - they all uniformly cite the lack of proper clinical training as an issue.

Peace and Namaste

Hppy

As others have indicated, nursing has more to do with the individual and less to do with the educational background. Detractors cite clinical exposure time as the reason they feel Excelsior should not be accredited however, they do so without appreciation for and understanding of how the student is tested prior to graduating. Clinical experience is something that these students already have. Those who aren't prepared will not make it through because it is a very "high bar" program. This is all about the bottom line. The series of six final exams have to be completed first and then the clinical. If (s)he cannot perform the critical elements of the clinical practicum with 100% competence under the rigorous, directly supervised, 2 day exam, there is no degree bestowed. With the exception of invasive procedures, this is every skill performed by an RN on a daily basis. I challenge ANY graduate of ANY nursing program to meet these requirements.

In the conventional setting, the student has classroom learning for at least a year and then wades into the clinic very carefully and even in the final semester, doesn't carry what would be a full assignment. There is no standardization of content furthermore, content and quality are dictated by whatever the clinic sites have to offer. We in the field, seem to put much stock in this inadequate clinical exposure offered by most conventional nursing programs citing that this experience is what is needed to prepare the graduate for nursing practice. In actuality, this situation is precisely what has given rise to the graduate nurse intern programs developed by so many hospitals, to pick up the slack and get the new RN up to speed. Our gold standard has been slipping. That said, there are many new RNs who demonstrate amazing competence which brings me back to the opening statement.

In the final analysis, however a nurse comes into being, we share one thing in common, the licensing exam. If we feel there are too many incompetent nurses getting licensed, let us turn our attention to THAT process and make it reflect the competency requirements necessary to function in the field of nursing today. The schools will then have to do a better job of preparing their graduates.

Verry Good Point made!

Hppy

What people who criticize Excelsior do not take into consideration is that Excelsior is not a teaching program, it is an evaluative program. Their tests, including the clinical exam at the end, evaluate the student's abilities learned elsewhere. Therefore, expecting a teaching environment from Excelsior is missing the point entirely.

cali510 wrote:What people who criticize Excelsior do not take into consideration is that Excelsior is not a teaching program, it is an evaluative program. Their tests, including the clinical exam at the end, evaluate the student's abilities learned elsewhere. Therefore, expecting a teaching environment from Excelsior is missing the point entirely.

Well said.