ETG testing

[NurseDeeb]

****o all,

I am glad to see this forum for nurses in recovery. I have been in the California Diversion Program for 2 years, and now I have been completely clean and sober for over 1 year. I am very grateful for this program. I am able to work and use my license and I should be in jail. I forged a prescription and went to work impaired too. Got fired, took 9 months off to work on my recovery then went back to work in non patient care in hospice. Unfortunately, my disease would not let me give up alcohol right away. It took getting caught drinking while in Diversion to get serious. I had a positive ETG test (it is a metabolite of alcohol) in July 2004.

The issue I am facing now is that I have had 2 more positive ETG tests this year in the absence of drinking. The board does not believe me that I'm sober and I had to take 2 months off work again. I am back to work now but they have mandated daily meetings, and if I have another positive I am out of the program. Does anyone here know about this test? What else might make it positive? Be careful about what you eat if you are random tested is my advice. I'm still grateful to be sober!!!!!!!! Good luck to all!!!

Debbie

[hppygr8ful]

This is timely because I just had a positive Etg on Aug 20, 2005 and I have not consumed alcohol of any kind in over 11 mos. I think I pinned it downed to a dipping sauce at an Italian Restuarant that had Balsamic Vinegar in it. You see Balsamic is aged in wine casks and so theoretically may contain trace amounts of alcohol. That's the only thing different that I have done. I have had two tests since then but haven't got the results as of yet. As far as I can tell there has only been one valid clinical study on ETG testing and it was done in Sweeden. In that case the people who had positive etgs all admitted to having used alcohol. There was no control group used so the study is far from meeting the criteria to make it "the Gold Standard" for testing. This really doesn't matter to the board though. They will violate you for a low creatinine as well even if the specific gravity and serum osmolarity of the urine is within normal range. So far here is a list of things that according to "Urban Legend" cause positive ETG.

Alcohol (of course)
waterless hand soap.
Any beauty product that contains SD Alcohol 40
hair dye
breath drops
Mouthwash
Balsamic Vinegar
Soy sauce
Teriaki sauce
extra sour dough bread
Any and all "fake" Alcohol such as O'doull's, Near beer, and Fre' wine products.

I am looking for additions to this list so if you have heard of anything that might be included. When I am done with my Diversion I am planning to persue a Master's degree in addiction treatment and want to conduct a real "Evidence Based" Clinical study of the efficacy of this test. Until then we just all have to be really careful about what we eat and drink. Though my diet has become very boring as of late I have a policy that when in doubt as to the ingredients do eat or drink it. Rememeber that diversion is not your recovery and that "this too shall pass" I'll let you know how these last two tests turned out.

[Neo]

Alcohol (of course)
waterless hand soap.
Any beauty product that contains SD Alcohol 40
hair dye
breath drops
Mouthwash
Balsamic Vinegar
Soy sauce
Teriaki sauce
extra sour dough bread
Any and all "fake" Alcohol such as O'doull's, Near beer, and Fre' wine products.

I am looking for additions to this list so if you have heard of anything that might be included. When I am done with my Diversion I am planning to persue a Master's degree in addiction treatment and want to conduct a real "Evidence Based" Clinical study of the efficacy of this test. Until then we just all have to be really careful about what we eat and drink. Though my diet has become very boring as of late I have a policy that when in doubt as to the ingredients do eat or drink it. Rememeber that diversion is not your recovery and that "this too shall pass" I'll let you know how these last two tests turned out.

Tons of labs are making exorbitant amount of loot for running these unreliable tests but yet boards are heavily relying on them wholeheartedly. Makes you wonder.

[wiscodin]

****o all,

I am glad to see this forum for nurses in recovery. I have been in the California Diversion Program for 2 years, and now I have been completely clean and sober for over 1 year. I am very grateful for this program. I am able to work and use my license and I should be in jail. I forged a prescription and went to work impaired too. Got fired, took 9 months off to work on my recovery then went back to work in non patient care in hospice. Unfortunately, my disease would not let me give up alcohol right away. It took getting caught drinking while in Diversion to get serious. I had a positive ETG test (it is a metabolite of alcohol) in July 2004.

The issue I am facing now is that I have had 2 more positive ETG tests this year in the absence of drinking. The board does not believe me that I'm sober and I had to take 2 months off work again. I am back to work now but they have mandated daily meetings, and if I have another positive I am out of the program. Does anyone here know about this test? What else might make it positive? Be careful about what you eat if you are random tested is my advice. I'm still grateful to be sober!!!!!!!! Good luck to all!!!

Debbie

Debbie,
There is mounting evidence that Etg yields what are coming to be known as "accidental" or "incidental positive" results. There is an excellent website that anyone reading this who's in a diversion program should become very familiar with:

www.ethylglycoronide.com

by Gregory Skipper, MD. It has some very impressive data there. A positive Etg does not mean someone has deliberately ingested an alcoholic beverage. Dr Skipper's strongly worded suggestions to those who are monitoring us professionals who are in recovery are to not jump to conclusions but rather to look at the entire clinical picture and taking other explanations into account, correlating them with the individual. This test is quite new and there is still alot of research being done and needing to be done to support it's validity. I strongly suggest you visit Dr Skipper's site. DON'T LET THOSE MONITORING YOU HAND YOU A SMOKING GUN THEN SAY YOU'RE GUILTY!!

David

[wiscodin]

This is timely because I just had a positive Etg on Aug 20, 2005 and I have not consumed alcohol of any kind in over 11 mos. I think I pinned it downed to a dipping sauce at an Italian Restuarant that had Balsamic Vinegar in it. You see Balsamic is aged in wine casks and so theoretically may contain trace amounts of alcohol. That's the only thing different that I have done. I have had two tests since then but haven't got the results as of yet. As far as I can tell there has only been one valid clinical study on ETG testing and it was done in Sweeden. In that case the people who had positive etgs all admitted to having used alcohol. There was no control group used so the study is far from meeting the criteria to make it "the Gold Standard" for testing. This really doesn't matter to the board though. They will violate you for a low creatinine as well even if the specific gravity and serum osmolarity of the urine is within normal range. So far here is a list of things that according to "Urban Legend" cause positive ETG.

Alcohol (of course)
waterless hand soap.
Any beauty product that contains SD Alcohol 40
hair dye
breath drops
Mouthwash
Balsamic Vinegar
Soy sauce
Teriaki sauce
extra sour dough bread
Any and all "fake" Alcohol such as O'doull's, Near beer, and Fre' wine products.

I am looking for additions to this list so if you have heard of anything that might be included. When I am done with my Diversion I am planning to persue a Master's degree in addiction treatment and want to conduct a real "Evidence Based" Clinical study of the efficacy of this test. Until then we just all have to be really careful about what we eat and drink. Though my diet has become very boring as of late I have a policy that when in doubt as to the ingredients do eat or drink it. Rememeber that diversion is not your recovery and that "this too shall pass" I'll let you know how these last two tests turned out.

Vanilla Extract, Maple, Coconut and other extracts. They WILL cause a positive Etg test as 2 tablespoons(1 oz. or 30cc) equal about 10 grams of ethanol...which is 2/3 of a "standard drink" (14gms= one 12 oz beer; 5oz wine; 1.5 oz jigger of proof liquor).

[wiscodin]

that's

http://ethylglucuronide.com/

sorry about the misprint

[imaquad]

My GF is an RN here in Kansas. She has had a few positives with ETG and is really worried now. She never drinks but gets a positive test. Have you heard of a way she can fight these? Other RN's here are getting the same thing. Is it possile to get them all together with a lawyer and fight it?

[hppygr8ful]

First of all there's no such thing as a false positive ETG. Ethylglucuronide (ETG) is a metabolite of alcohol that is produced by the liver for 3 to five days following ingestion of alcohol. That being said here is a list of items that people have stated to have consumed prior to receiving a positive ETG.

Alcohol (of course)
waterless hand soap. (Proven by recent clinical study)
Any beauty product that contains SD Alcohol 40
hair dye
breath drops
Mouthwash
Balsamic Vinegar
Soy sauce
Teriaki sauce
extra sour dough bread
extracts for cooking Vanilla is 30% alcohol by volume
Any and all "fake" Alcohol such as O'doull's, Near beer, and Fre' wine products.

Basically anything that goes through a fermentation process ofany product applied topically that contains alcohol of any kind.

This test is a flawed tool with such a narrow margin of specificity that are likely to be prblems with this "tool" for years. Unless the legal or scientific community steps up to refute the validity of this test they are going to keep using it. I have had a positive etg (450) that was termed an innocent positive because the number was so low.

For more information on this test go to http://ethylglucuronide.homestead.com/index.html
there you can find information about the test and register to be part of proposed clinical studies. We must help the scientific community gather the data necessary to invalidate this test.

There is also a website for medical professionals in recovery with lots of links and info also a place to b&m or practice the art of acceptance.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...Recovery/links


Hope this information has been helpful

Always happy and grateful to be a sober alcoholic

Hppygr8ful

It

[imaquad]

Yes, that is very helpful, but I called a lab (http://www.redwoodtoxicology.com) and the lady said that the test between all these things. I dont think i believe her, but i dont know much.

[hppygr8ful]

Yes, that is very helpful, but I called a lab (http://www.redwoodtoxicology.com) and the lady said that the test between all these things. I dont think i believe her, but i dont know much.

You have to remember that the professional boards that use these tests have been told by the european recovery experts - This test came from Switzerland - That this test is the Gold Standard for detection of alcohol relapse. This is inspite of the fact that the only clinical study presented on it's efficacy was flawed because they only tested alcoholics in early sobriety. There was no control group of non drinkers to compare the resesults to. Also remember that the labs promoting this test are making a **** load of money not only on the test but also on the MRO reports done when A person comes up Positive.

I do believe that this test can be a useful tool but that it's sensitivity should be looked at due to the fact that lives and careers hang in the balance. I personally know of 4 nurses who were nearing their diversion completion dates who had their sobriety dates changed by the Board of nursing based on this test.
Go to the etg website - it is monitored by the Dr. Who brought the test to the US and even he has now puplically acknowledged that the test may have limitations in some cases.

Hppygr8ful