I am glad to see this forum for nurses in recovery. I have been in the California Diversion Program for 2 years, and now I have been completely clean and sober for over 1 year. I am very grateful for this program. I am able to work and use my license and I should be in jail. I forged a prescription and went to work impaired too. Got fired, took 9 months off to work on my recovery then went back to work in non patient care in hospice. Unfortunately, my disease would not let me give up alcohol right away. It took getting caught drinking while in Diversion to get serious. I had a positive ETG test (it is a metabolite of alcohol) in July 2004.
The issue I am facing now is that I have had 2 more positive ETG tests this year in the absence of drinking. The board does not believe me that I'm sober and I had to take 2 months off work again. I am back to work now but they have mandated daily meetings, and if I have another positive I am out of the program. Does anyone here know about this test? What else might make it positive? Be careful about what you eat if you are random tested is my advice. I'm still grateful to be sober!!!!!!!! Good luck to all!!!
This is timely because I just had a positive Etg on Aug 20, 2005 and I have not consumed alcohol of any kind in over 11 mos. I think I pinned it downed to a dipping sauce at an Italian Restuarant that had Balsamic Vinegar in it. You see Balsamic is aged in wine casks and so theoretically may contain trace amounts of alcohol. That's the only thing different that I have done. I have had two tests since then but haven't got the results as of yet. As far as I can tell there has only been one valid clinical study on ETG testing and it was done in Sweeden. In that case the people who had positive etgs all admitted to having used alcohol. There was no control group used so the study is far from meeting the criteria to make it "the Gold Standard" for testing. This really doesn't matter to the board though. They will violate you for a low creatinine as well even if the specific gravity and serum osmolarity of the urine is within normal range. So far here is a list of things that according to "Urban Legend" cause positive ETG.
Alcohol (of course)
waterless hand soap.
Any beauty product that contains SD Alcohol 40
hair dye
breath drops
Mouthwash
Balsamic Vinegar
Soy sauce
Teriaki sauce
extra sour dough bread
Any and all "fake" Alcohol such as O'doull's, Near beer, and Fre' wine products.
I am looking for additions to this list so if you have heard of anything that might be included. When I am done with my Diversion I am planning to persue a Master's degree in addiction treatment and want to conduct a real "Evidence Based" Clinical study of the efficacy of this test. Until then we just all have to be really careful about what we eat and drink. Though my diet has become very boring as of late I have a policy that when in doubt as to the ingredients do eat or drink it. Rememeber that diversion is not your recovery and that "this too shall pass" I'll let you know how these last two tests turned out.
hppygr8ful wrote:Alcohol (of course)
waterless hand soap.
Any beauty product that contains SD Alcohol 40
hair dye
breath drops
Mouthwash
Balsamic Vinegar
Soy sauce
Teriaki sauce
extra sour dough bread
Any and all "fake" Alcohol such as O'doull's, Near beer, and Fre' wine products.
I am looking for additions to this list so if you have heard of anything that might be included. When I am done with my Diversion I am planning to persue a Master's degree in addiction treatment and want to conduct a real "Evidence Based" Clinical study of the efficacy of this test. Until then we just all have to be really careful about what we eat and drink. Though my diet has become very boring as of late I have a policy that when in doubt as to the ingredients do eat or drink it. Rememeber that diversion is not your recovery and that "this too shall pass" I'll let you know how these last two tests turned out.
Tons of labs are making exorbitant amount of loot for running these unreliable tests but yet boards are heavily relying on them wholeheartedly. Makes you wonder.
I am glad to see this forum for nurses in recovery. I have been in the California Diversion Program for 2 years, and now I have been completely clean and sober for over 1 year. I am very grateful for this program. I am able to work and use my license and I should be in jail. I forged a prescription and went to work impaired too. Got fired, took 9 months off to work on my recovery then went back to work in non patient care in hospice. Unfortunately, my disease would not let me give up alcohol right away. It took getting caught drinking while in Diversion to get serious. I had a positive ETG test (it is a metabolite of alcohol) in July 2004.
The issue I am facing now is that I have had 2 more positive ETG tests this year in the absence of drinking. The board does not believe me that I'm sober and I had to take 2 months off work again. I am back to work now but they have mandated daily meetings, and if I have another positive I am out of the program. Does anyone here know about this test? What else might make it positive? Be careful about what you eat if you are random tested is my advice. I'm still grateful to be sober!!!!!!!! Good luck to all!!!
Debbie
Debbie,
There is mounting evidence that Etg yields what are coming to be known as "accidental" or "incidental positive" results. There is an excellent website that anyone reading this who's in a diversion program should become very familiar with:
by Gregory Skipper, MD. It has some very impressive data there. A positive Etg does not mean someone has deliberately ingested an alcoholic beverage. Dr Skipper's strongly worded suggestions to those who are monitoring us professionals who are in recovery are to not jump to conclusions but rather to look at the entire clinical picture and taking other explanations into account, correlating them with the individual. This test is quite new and there is still alot of research being done and needing to be done to support it's validity. I strongly suggest you visit Dr Skipper's site. DON'T LET THOSE MONITORING YOU HAND YOU A SMOKING GUN THEN SAY YOU'RE GUILTY!!
hppygr8ful wrote:This is timely because I just had a positive Etg on Aug 20, 2005 and I have not consumed alcohol of any kind in over 11 mos. I think I pinned it downed to a dipping sauce at an Italian Restuarant that had Balsamic Vinegar in it. You see Balsamic is aged in wine casks and so theoretically may contain trace amounts of alcohol. That's the only thing different that I have done. I have had two tests since then but haven't got the results as of yet. As far as I can tell there has only been one valid clinical study on ETG testing and it was done in Sweeden. In that case the people who had positive etgs all admitted to having used alcohol. There was no control group used so the study is far from meeting the criteria to make it "the Gold Standard" for testing. This really doesn't matter to the board though. They will violate you for a low creatinine as well even if the specific gravity and serum osmolarity of the urine is within normal range. So far here is a list of things that according to "Urban Legend" cause positive ETG.
Alcohol (of course)
waterless hand soap.
Any beauty product that contains SD Alcohol 40
hair dye
breath drops
Mouthwash
Balsamic Vinegar
Soy sauce
Teriaki sauce
extra sour dough bread
Any and all "fake" Alcohol such as O'doull's, Near beer, and Fre' wine products.
I am looking for additions to this list so if you have heard of anything that might be included. When I am done with my Diversion I am planning to persue a Master's degree in addiction treatment and want to conduct a real "Evidence Based" Clinical study of the efficacy of this test. Until then we just all have to be really careful about what we eat and drink. Though my diet has become very boring as of late I have a policy that when in doubt as to the ingredients do eat or drink it. Rememeber that diversion is not your recovery and that "this too shall pass" I'll let you know how these last two tests turned out.
Vanilla Extract, Maple, Coconut and other extracts. They WILL cause a positive Etg test as 2 tablespoons(1 oz. or 30cc) equal about 10 grams of ethanol...which is 2/3 of a "standard drink" (14gms= one 12 oz beer; 5oz wine; 1.5 oz jigger of proof liquor).
My GF is an RN here in Kansas. She has had a few positives with ETG and is really worried now. She never drinks but gets a positive test. Have you heard of a way she can fight these? Other RN's here are getting the same thing. Is it possile to get them all together with a lawyer and fight it?
First of all there's no such thing as a false positive ETG. Ethylglucuronide (ETG) is a metabolite of alcohol that is produced by the liver for 3 to five days following ingestion of alcohol. That being said here is a list of items that people have stated to have consumed prior to receiving a positive ETG.
Alcohol (of course)
waterless hand soap. (Proven by recent clinical study)
Any beauty product that contains SD Alcohol 40
hair dye
breath drops
Mouthwash
Balsamic Vinegar
Soy sauce
Teriaki sauce
extra sour dough bread
extracts for cooking Vanilla is 30% alcohol by volume
Any and all "fake" Alcohol such as O'doull's, Near beer, and Fre' wine products.
Basically anything that goes through a fermentation process ofany product applied topically that contains alcohol of any kind.
This test is a flawed tool with such a narrow margin of specificity that are likely to be prblems with this "tool" for years. Unless the legal or scientific community steps up to refute the validity of this test they are going to keep using it. I have had a positive etg (450) that was termed an innocent positive because the number was so low.
For more information on this test go to http://ethylglucuronide.homestead.com/index.html
there you can find information about the test and register to be part of proposed clinical studies. We must help the scientific community gather the data necessary to invalidate this test.
There is also a website for medical professionals in recovery with lots of links and info also a place to b&m or practice the art of acceptance.
Yes, that is very helpful, but I called a lab (http://www.redwoodtoxicology.com) and the lady said that the test between all these things. I dont think i believe her, but i dont know much.
imaquad wrote:Yes, that is very helpful, but I called a lab (http://www.redwoodtoxicology.com) and the lady said that the test between all these things. I dont think i believe her, but i dont know much.
You have to remember that the professional boards that use these tests have been told by the european recovery experts - This test came from Switzerland - That this test is the Gold Standard for detection of alcohol relapse. This is inspite of the fact that the only clinical study presented on it's efficacy was flawed because they only tested alcoholics in early sobriety. There was no control group of non drinkers to compare the resesults to. Also remember that the labs promoting this test are making a **** load of money not only on the test but also on the MRO reports done when A person comes up Positive.
I do believe that this test can be a useful tool but that it's sensitivity should be looked at due to the fact that lives and careers hang in the balance. I personally know of 4 nurses who were nearing their diversion completion dates who had their sobriety dates changed by the Board of nursing based on this test.
Go to the etg website - it is monitored by the Dr. Who brought the test to the US and even he has now puplically acknowledged that the test may have limitations in some cases.
The research on ETG was:confused: done mostly on men. May be biological reason for female nurses who have low positive ETG levels. In San Diego almost 25% of our diversion nurses have had positive tests. None of the men have. One nurse just got her third and she was so upset because she didn't relapse and has been very careful about what she eats. The test needs to be changed. Only by being proactive can we hope to either raise the cut off level to something more reasonable (like over 1000), or get research done on women. One lab stated that if they get a low positive etg that they also test for the presence of ethanol, and only if that level is over 04 do they feel a strong indication for relapse. I wonder if our lab does the same kind of testing; would be good to explore. I am interested in forming some momentum on this topic, please keep giving feedback and stand up for your rights!
I stomgly suggest that any nurse in a diversion or peer assistance program that includes etg testing as part of it's program go to http://ethylglucuronide.homestead.com/index.html
and check out the available information on this test
New items to add to the do not use/eat list
Any beauty product that contains sd alcohol 40
polo loco chicken they cook the tequila lime chicken on the same grill as the regular
Panda inn chinese food they put alcohol in everything
Anything containing raw vanilla extract
sports creams and topical pain relievers.
Stay alert this situation is ready to bust wide open
Hi, I am in PA (female) and have been in recovery for ~ 8 years, and in the PHMP (Professional Health Monitoring Program) for that long. I have also have difficulty with the ETG testing. I have tested + several times and have never relapsed or consumed alcohol. Our cut off is 500 for the EtG test. Again, they all think that the test is 100% accurate??? Is there anyone else out there from PA? I wonder if there is some way for us to get together and fight? Thanks Joyous1:)
I was so glad to find this forum as my life got turned upside down last month. I was two weeks into transistion in the California BRN Diversion program when I was informed I had a positive etg result of 4500. I did not drink and I love being sober but this has been the biggest challange to my sobriety so far.
I was told I had to start the entire Diversion process over and give up the two years of hard work I had put in, despite the fact I was 100% compliant prior to this and returned 3 negative tests within weeks of this one "positive".
I had surgery just days prior to my test and was wondering if anyone has heard of anything from anesthesia cross reacting creating a positive etg?
I heard today that another nurse I know had a positive as well (significant, over 2000 eliminating any chance it was accidental exposure) and I find it sad that no one will listen to us and consider we are telling the truth because we have a history of substance abuse.
I wonder when the truth about etg testing reliability and lab error will come out? I sure don't have a ton of hope that when it does anyone will rush out to call me and apologize for turning my life upside down.
I still remain grateful beyond words for my sobriety but have lost faith in the Diversion process.
Thank you for the story, I have empathy......they have been turning my life upside down since 2004. I am appealing the board I hope to find nurses who will provide additional support to fight this unfair testing method. I started in the monitoring program 1998-1999 and did not have problems with the test until they started the EtG. They have switched lab companies numerous times and the last two use EtG. I also am trying to find support to show that if anyone has tested + for Hep C that this may have an impact on + EtG. I would appreciate any more input. Thanks Joy http://forums.ultimatenurse.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
:):)
I was so glad to find this forum as my life got turned upside down last month. I was two weeks into transistion in the California BRN Diversion program when I was informed I had a positive etg result of 4500. I did not drink and I love being sober but this has been the biggest challange to my sobriety so far.
I was told I had to start the entire Diversion process over and give up the two years of hard work I had put in, despite the fact I was 100% compliant prior to this and returned 3 negative tests within weeks of this one "positive".
I had surgery just days prior to my test and was wondering if anyone has heard of anything from anesthesia cross reacting creating a positive etg?
I heard today that another nurse I know had a positive as well (significant, over 2000 eliminating any chance it was accidental exposure) and I find it sad that no one will listen to us and consider we are telling the truth because we have a history of substance abuse.
I wonder when the truth about etg testing reliability and lab error will come out? I sure don't have a ton of hope that when it does anyone will rush out to call me and apologize for turning my life upside down.
I still remain grateful beyond words for my sobriety but have lost faith in the Diversion process.
Best to you all.
So sorry you are going through this.
If you had surgery at about the time of this test I would get a copy of your medical record and send a copy of every medication you were given before during and after surgery. You also need to find out what kind of prep solution was used on the operative site. It's been shown with testing on waterless hand soap that alcohol absorbed through the skin or inhaled does cause positive Etg's. Also there is evidence that some adhesives used to secure medical appliances can effect Etg testing if they contain alcohol. I would collect all this data and send it to the MRO. I would also suggest that you look into obtaining an independant MRO. If in Fact you have tested positive in the absence of alcohol intake you must stand up for your rights. Please feel free to visit our on-line support group at
Our facilitator in my nurses support group has started a list of nurses who have tested positive for ETG and we have added to it weekly. Most recently a nurse had two positive tests, both around 500. One was before she was hospitalized for dehydration (she had been vomiting after starting on a new antidepressant) and one was just after she was released from the hospital. They used alcohol wipes on her for blood draws, but other than that, she cannot fathom how she tested positive. She is not an alcoholic, she abused pills, and cannot even stand alcohol, so I highly doubt she drank. Anyway, the diversion program wants her to enter a rehab, and of course when she told her story to the admission people at several of them, they laughed and said it was a crock. So now diversion is in a pickle because they can't punish her the way they wanted! :cool:
I worked as a phlebotomist in a hospital where we did etg testing. If they are taking samples by blood they cannot clean yourarm with an alcahol swab at all. They need to use bedadine at the venipuncture sight. The alchaol used to clean will give you a false positive. It sounds like all you guys need to fight somehow. Goodluck to every one
I felt like I was completely alone in my experience. I'm a recovering alcoholic with almost three years of sobriety; I'm being monitored by Florida's IPN (intervention project for nurses) program. About a year and a half ago, a colleague reported that she thought she smelled alcohol near me - I insisted on having a BAL drawn then and there - it was negative. But the IPN folks asked me to take an ETG. I agreed happily, since I was sure it would exonerate me.
Wrong. I was flabbergasted when it came back positive. More than flabbergasted - I was totally devastated. Absolutely nobody believed that I hadn't been drinking. I had both the psychiatrist I was referred to and the leader of my "nurse support group" screaming at me that I was "a liar and a lousy nurse". I lost my job. I lost my license. I had to undergo over half a year of residential treatment. I'm about to lose my house, since IPN still hasn't cleared me to return to nursing, and there's no way that working as a telemarketer allows me to meet my mortgage payments.
The thing that floors me, is that almost everyone insists "there's no such thing as a false positive". I find that hard to believe; I worked in a family planning clinic, and was assured by the company that makes our pregnancy tests that a false positive was impossible. One day when the first six women I tested turned up positive, I ran one on myself: it was positive. Did I mention I'm 59 years old and had a hysterectomy 20 years ago?
Since my horrible experence, I've spoken with two other nurses in the local
IPN program with similar stories. We fantasize about a class action suit...
THANK GOD I have finally found you guys! I have been in the CA diversion program for 4 years, and will celebrate my 4th year sober b-day on Sept 20th; This etg testing thing is ABSOLUTELY OUT OF CONTROL...I was due to finish in May of this year, but THREE WEEKS before my final meeting with the diversion eval comittee (DEC), I was told I had a etg result of 2400!!!, that I HAD relapsed, that my "transition" status was taken away, etc. etc., and that I would have to start over. I DID NOT DRINK, and was suspended from work for over 3 weeks (while I have a new mortgage, etc.). When I frantically called the lab and kept saying that there had been a serious error, I was told, "oh honey, we don't make mistakes..." Not believing me, my case manager told me that I would have to write a paper on relapse, etc., and I insisted I would not do that since I HAD NOT relapsed. So instead I wrote a paper on how this, (like someone else posted), has been the most upsetting thing in, and biggest challenge of my sobriety and turned my life UPSIDE DOWN, and that if one DIDN'T have a strong recovery or good support system, I could totally see how someone WOULD probably "go out" over something like this...
So, at my DEC meeting in May, after a grueling 45 min conversation with these people, I was told, basically, that they "believed I didn't drink," but in order to "preserve the presidence of their diversion program," they couldn't just "let me go," and as an alternative, would extend my transition status six more months. Yes, I AM very grateful they did not start me all over, but man was I PISSED and had to really pray hard for acceptance, which I finally found. However, since then I have been living in FEAR that something else is going to happen. And wadoyouknow! Today I get a call from my case manager saying that 2 WEEKS ago (and as someone else had also said, I KNOW it doesn't take THAT long to get results, and don't EVEN get me started on how much these testing companies ARE RIPPING all of us off) I had a + etg of 270. Again, I DID NOT DRINK. She said they would "probably consider it incidental," and thank God I was not told I couldn't go to work or anything this time, but COME ON, WHAT THE ****????? This is SOO upsetting, and I have had so many friends in the program that I really believe WERE NOT DRINKING come up with so many +'s, especially lately, so there is a big group of us that have just completely had the life sucked out of us R/T this issue. (OF NOTE, THEY ARE ALL WOMEN...Does anyone know of any MALES that say they didn't drink that have come up +? I have not heard of ANY, and its been mentioned among my peers that maybe it has to do with a hormone thing??? Or female metabolism??)
Anyway, with this seriously erroneous test, and NO ONE BELIEVING US BECAUSE WE ARE THE "BAD, lying ADDICTS," HOW ARE ANY OF US GOING TO EVER GRADUATE and get the **** OUT of THESE FLAWED PROGRAMS???? That's why I said at the beginning, I am so glad to have finally found this forum, cause MY GOD, I can't believe there are SOOO MANY OF US!! WHAT CAN WE DO?? There has GOT to be something, now that our numbers are so huge, across the COUNTRY, and that more is being found out about possible causes for "incidental," or "accidental" +'s... Also, VERY IMPORTANT: Did you guys see the article in the Wall Street Journal from August 12th, called "A New test for Alcohol, and its flaws?" If you have not read it, FIND IT, on line or wherever, cause its the first thing I have heard of PUBLICALLY that kind of backs us up. When my friend who tested + a couple weeks ago asked the case manager if the DEC was aware of the article, she said quietly, "yes, they are aware..."
It is truly unbelievable, and SOOO sad to me that at this point, it is not even CLOSE to enough to just not drink and use and work a good program, when as an alcoholic or addict you are encouraged to "voluntarily" enter this program that "will help you..." Don't get me wrong, diversion has saved my life and I am more grateful for my sobriety than anything, but something along the way has gone terribly ARRY...Anyhow, thanks for letting me vent, and PLEASE think of how we can take some sort of action...I know as individuals we are powerless over the boards, but the world DOES need WORKING, WELL nurses, and if enough of us come forward, backed with our collective research, and threaten (in an adult way, of course) that to get another career or something might be the only way to get out from under a flawed system where no matter what you do, you can't win, I don't know, maybe someone will listen (even if its a lawyer...)! Please let me know your thoughts...
Thanks for the websites, I have discovered the yahoo one, and since I am calmer now my last posting there (if I did it right, oyy) was more professinal and less extreme! But GOOD to know about the one where I CAN curse the "whole sorry business!" I'm gonna check it out! I have a whole gang of friends in recovery and diversion programs that have also had false + etg's, that don't know about these groups, so they are going to be FLOORED...Thanks for assuring me that I am, or WE are not alone!
I'm so glad I found this forum. I tested positive for alcohol July 3rd. Since I know I didn't drink, or take an over-the-counter med that I know of that contained alcohol, I just got the results of the retest - which still said positive. I'm in the PA recovery monitoring program for a little over a year now, but am out of work for the last week or so until they make their decision. It's even in my file that I never drank alcohol - maybe 1 or 2 glassess a year. The only think I can think of that would've caused the positive was eating a casserole that was made with cooking sherry 4 days prior to the urine test. I really felt alone in all of this until reading that others are going through the same thing. Does anyone know of anyone actually losing their license because of this super over sensitive test??
ONLYME: glad you found this....I have had my license suspended d/t this test, check out the following discussion group: ethylglucuronide@yahoogroups.com There are many of us + EtG, some in PA like me.
This is a summary that was reported to us on the EtG Yahoo discussion post. Good news on the Horizon for EtG victims: Three of the ladies(Nancy, Lorie and Tina)from the EtG group attended the SAMHSA conference in DC this Wed (9/20/06). SAMHSA (Substance Abuse & Mental Health Services Administration) issued an 8 page advisory on Alcohol Biomarkers that included information on EtG, while it suported many of the things that we have known and been saying, it was long and weak, HOWEVER, when the the ladies (Nancy,Lorie and Tina) presented their stories and the negative impact EtG testing has done to their life, THEY WERE HEARD! Donna Bush, a forensic toxicologist fromt the Drug Testing Advisory Board at SAMHSA, prorposed a "Black Box Warning" to include that the test is experimental, its scientific validity has not been proven, and therefore action based soley on a + EtG test should not be taken. They made a motion to strengthen the wording with regard to taking action based solely on a level for Etg and also supported an educational program for boards and others using this test. Ms Bush stated that the advisory was a result of the compelling stories of these 3 ladies. Thank you NANCY, LORIE and TINA and all the others that sent in their stories. :) This advisory should be available on the website by 9/30/06. More will be revealed.................joy
joyous1_1210 wrote:This is a summary that was reported to us on the EtG Yahoo discussion post. Good news on the Horizon for EtG victims: Three of the ladies(Nancy, Lorie and Tina)from the EtG group attended the SAMHSA conference in DC this Wed (9/20/06). SAMHSA (Substance Abuse & Mental Health Services Administration) issued an 8 page advisory on Alcohol Biomarkers that included information on EtG, while it suported many of the things that we have known and been saying, it was long and weak, HOWEVER, when the the ladies (Nancy,Lorie and Tina) presented their stories and the negative impact EtG testing has done to their life, THEY WERE HEARD! Donna Bush, a forensic toxicologist fromt the Drug Testing Advisory Board at SAMHSA, prorposed a "Black Box Warning" to include that the test is experimental, its scientific validity has not been proven, and therefore action based soley on a + EtG test should not be taken. They made a motion to strengthen the wording with regard to taking action based solely on a level for Etg and also supported an educational program for boards and others using this test. Ms Bush stated that the advisory was a result of the compelling stories of these 3 ladies. Thank you NANCY, LORIE and TINA and all the others that sent in their stories. :) This advisory should be available on the website by 9/30/06. More will be revealed.................joy
Do you know where I can get an actual copy of this advisory like a website or something. I'm building a file.
www.samhsa.gov is the website, I do not see anything yet, but they are supposed to have this in writing by 9/30/06. I will let this site know when I find out from the ethylglucuronide@yahoogroups.com site
happygrtful: have you visited this yet? try it! joy
I am glad to see this forum for nurses in recovery. I have been in the California Diversion Program for 2 years, and now I have been completely clean and sober for over 1 year. I am very grateful for this program. I am able to work and use my license and I should be in jail. I forged a prescription and went to work impaired too. Got fired, took 9 months off to work on my recovery then went back to work in non patient care in hospice. Unfortunately, my disease would not let me give up alcohol right away. It took getting caught drinking while in Diversion to get serious. I had a positive ETG test (it is a metabolite of alcohol) in July 2004.
The issue I am facing now is that I have had 2 more positive ETG tests this year in the absence of drinking. The board does not believe me that I'm sober and I had to take 2 months off work again. I am back to work now but they have mandated daily meetings, and if I have another positive I am out of the program. Does anyone here know about this test? What else might make it positive? Be careful about what you eat if you are random tested is my advice. I'm still grateful to be sober!!!!!!!! Good luck to all!!!
WOW!! I am absolutely terrified by these postings about ETG testing. I am new to the California Diversion Program, but have been successfully testing for North Carolina for about 16 months. It's very distressing to learn that a program which is designed on the premise that addiction is an illness and that nurses should be rehabilitated rather than punished, would rely on such a controversial and unreliable test. Changing people's sobriety dates?? This program is supposed to be about RECOVERY. When someone has relapsed, there are going to be other signs. And we can not always control what might be in our food. I have begun to wonder if my Caramel Macciatto might have vanilla extract in it's vanilla syrup! I have gone along believing that as long as I stay in recovery, one day at a time, the rest will take care of itself. Now I have to worry about being falsely accused of relapse? Ouch!!
To any who are reading this thread, I looked at the aforementioned website this afternoon and the advisory is THERE! I have printed it and I intend to make enough copies for my nurse support group. Let's ge the word out. This testing is unacceptable. Again the website is: www.samhsa.gov
Does anyone know if all the boards use ETG testing? I'm specifically wondering about Oregon. I've had 2 random UA's in the last week, and even though I haven't had a drink, I'm worried because of all the posts I've been reading.
Happy Thanksgiving to All! I am Tina, many of you know my crazy story if you've read the Wall Street Journal. I fortunately do not know the pain of addiction. I do know the pain of being wrongfully called a liar. I have had negative EtG's for nearly a year now. In terrible fear though, due to subjected to 3 more years of testing. Though through trial and error and all the valuable "what not to do" information from forums, support groups and literature, I have been able to produce negatives. The holidays, though joyous, are rough not being able to try all the goodies that are offered due to unintentional ingestion of alcohol. I still am practicing nursing, though in diversion. My first test was 930. This was prior to the awareness of what to avoid. The very limited initial information left me with the understanding that I just couldn't drink alchohol or use Niquil or benadryl. After the 930, I realized that I had to really start reading labels and being totally aware of what was coming into my body. I avoid nearly everything. I have found that I can use hairspray and perfume in the morning as long as I don't have to test that day. Yea, russian roulette with the hygiene and beauty products. I recieved a verbal warning for a 147ng/ml and 3 more years for a 310 one month after the verbal warning. Still not sure what I did wrong. I've met with some amazing people through this venture, Kevin Helliker is on our side from the WSJ. What a great guy! Dr. Skipper was in MD at the National Advisory Council meeting and he is really trying to help make this right. The members of the council were very supportive and angry about this test and it's reliability, but mostly concerned about the adverse effects it can have on a recovering addict. Others may say they are here to help, but the Advisory Council really is in it for RECOVERY. We call our nurse assistance program KNAP - The Kansas Nurse Assassination Program. Nothing is about helping, it's all about money and power. They could care less about any new data, or scientific research on the EtG. Positive - YOU DRANK. What idiots, I wish they would submit a UA.
Anyway that's my intro! If I have new information, I will be sharing. Thank you all for the same. I'm sure that truth and justice will prevail. The waiting is rough but I truly believe in time we will be believed. Hang in There! Best of wishes for a wonderful Thanksgiving!!
This is crazy. I have to post in order to see the last page. Jeez can anyone help correct this? Oh I did use the prompt at the bottom and the top..... I am very comp savy and this is a new one on me. I get the first page on this thread then that's it unless I post LOL.
I am not a nurse, but I do know something about etg testing. Thought I would share with you all.
Etg tests are sensitive to alcohol metabolites as you have mentioned. It would be interesting to know how many ng's you all tested for. Anything under 500 ng's could/should be considered incidental exposure. Anything OVER 500 is definite alcohol consumption.
That's not to say that anything under 500 is not alcohol consumption, just that it is too low to be positive that alcohol was consumed. Low levels could also indicate incidental abuse (ex: drinking high doses of cough syrup, vanilla extract, mouthwash, etc).
I got a positive EtG test a few weeks ago - and I have not had a drink in 20 months. My test was 186 ng/ml.
I think it was food that got me - I had some cookies that had lemon extract in them. I ate almost the whole batch - which is 1 tsp lemon extract which is 35% alcohol... I will never do that again. If not that - then I am baffled.
I am very sorry to hear about your etg test. I don't know what it will take for the BRN to abandon this flawed test. I too, am in CA diversion program and several people in my nurse support group (one of whom was taking Anabuse) have had multiple elevated etg levels.
One continuing ed workshop I attended presented info that inhaling the fumes from alcohol based hand sanitizer produces high etg levels. If you are using Purell you may want to stop.
Keep the faith and keep doing what you know is right! You are a person, not a test result!
Hey I ate at Panda Express and have eaten there many times. Now I'm hearing it could produce a positive etg. They use 1 tablespoon of 50% etoh in a wine. l tablespoon per bin of food. They cook at high temp. I believe the etoh gets cooked out. what you think?
nancyt wrote:Hey I ate at Panda Express and have eaten there many times. Now I'm hearing it could produce a positive etg. They use 1 tablespoon of 50% etoh in a wine. l tablespoon per bin of food. They cook at high temp. I believe the etoh gets cooked out. what you think?
I know of two people in my Nurse Support group who tested positive with fairly high numbers above 1500ng/ml etg following eating Panda Express.
I Also had one person in my group test positive at 1200 after eating Polo Loco Chicken.
I personally tested Positive after eating at Don Carino's (and no I didn't have the wine.
I only eat food that I prepare myself or in restaurant where I can speak to the chef. I simply telll them that I am deathly allergic to alcohol in any form and can he/she make a suggestion. I've often had them whipp me up something special. It doesn't work though if you just talk to the wait staff.
I tested positive for amphetamines about 5 years ago...I was clean. I KNOW it was a lab error (if only they had a split specimen to retest) ... I was devestated, went through DEEP depression. Destroyed me. I am a changed person today, great new husband, new home (after KAtrina)
I am now inquiring on steps needed or possibility of reinstating my license. I love nursing.
Hi just4ladejane, a lot of people here are going through similar situations. You might want to start your own thread here on the board to get more responses.
Go to my website Recoveryrns.com. you will find information about this. This is a test which unproved destroyes so many lives. We are nurses all we have to worry about is our license but so many people have lost more than that. People have had their children taken away because of this. People get sent to prison because of this. It is endemic. They have a captive audience, what a wonderful way to make money. Oh yes they made money a $20 for a simple urine test, but now $47 for this and if they find anyything even if is not relevant then they are justified in testing you 5 days a week. I am two weeks from completing probation and beleive me I will fight for this. It is so wrong. Somebody has to change this.
I AM IN RECOVERY AND CLEAN SINCE APRIL '06...MY MANDATED PROGRAM TURNED UP A POSITIVE ETG TEST AND I HAVEN'T USED ANY ALCOHOL. MY RESEARCH TURNED UP A BOAT LOAD OF INFORMATION ON THIS SUBJECT AND THE POTENTIAL JEAPORDY IS MIND BOGGLING. SURFING THE WEB I HAVE FOUND CLASS ACTION SUITS IN THE EAST..WE NEED TO BAND TOGETHER AND DO LIKEWISE IN THE WEST. THE LABS AND TX CENTERS ARE LINING THEIR POCKETS AND DESTROYING CAREERS. MY POSITION IS THAT UNETHICAL EXECUTION OF INFORMED CONSENT IS TAKING PLACE AND IT IS RAMPANT MALPRACTICE. SAMHSA SAYS THE TEST IS UNRELIABLE AND SHOULD NOT BE USED. I AM AN ALCOHOLIC/ADDICT BUT I AM ALSO AN HONORABLE MAN. I HAVE, AND DO, OWN UP TO MY SHORTCOMINGS. I AM NOT LIAR AND I AM OUTRAGED AT BEING ACCUSED OF ONE. TALK TO ME. WE ALL NEED EACH OTHER TO STOP THIS UNETHICAL (IF NOT ILLEGAL) PRACTICE OF MONEY GRUBBING, CAREER DESTROYING METHODOLOGY. HUBERT.GRAHAM@VERIZON.NET
It is a relief to know that I'm not alone in my EtG hell. I am an RN and I'm 3 1/2 years sober. I have been in Diversion for as long as I have been sober. For the past 1 1/2 years, I have been getting "invalid" results. What they are telling me is that there is something in my body "blocking" the results of the EtG. Has anyone had that experience? They are going to drop me from the Diversion program if it continues, but I don't know what it could be. They accused me of taking something to hide drinking. I'm so frustrated.
Does anyone have any suggestions? I have searched and all I can find is "false positives". But that is not my problem.
I am fortunate to say I successfully completed diversion in January. During my 3 years and ten months in diversion, with what I would consider to be some heavy duty testing (37 times in 2006 alone!) I never had a positive ETG. Of course, I never drank. However, I did use alcohol based hand sanitizer at work, I ate at all the 'suspect' restaurants: Polo Loco, Panda Express,etc. and frequently used a mostly alcohol skin astringent everyday!
Hi I am really new to this ETG testing...I received info from my boards to avoid benadryl...i take it often for allergies...does anyone know if benadryl will cause a positive ETG test? Thank you!
I don't know of a correlation between Benadryl and etg...however, the CA diversion program considers Benadryl a mind-altering medication, and if detected on a urine sample, could be considered a relapse.
There are many things that can cause a positive in the absence of drinking. Hand Sanitizer, Hairspray...anything that has alcohol. But you can also show a false positive if you have a UTI. Also you can have a false positive if you are a diabetic.
HCDC wrote:I am not a nurse, but I do know something about etg testing. Thought I would share with you all.
Etg tests are sensitive to alcohol metabolites as you have mentioned. It would be interesting to know how many ng's you all tested for. Anything under 500 ng's could/should be considered incidental exposure. Anything OVER 500 is definite alcohol consumption.
That's not to say that anything under 500 is not alcohol consumption, just that it is too low to be positive that alcohol was consumed. Low levels could also indicate incidental abuse (ex: drinking high doses of cough syrup, vanilla extract, mouthwash, etc).
After reading your post I guess I am wondering what makes you such an expert on ETG testing? I have tested positive 4 times in the past two years and have not had a drop of alcohol to drink. I am however, pre-diabetic and have frequent urinary tract infections, but the courts choose not to look at these facts. I am now facing time in prison because of these ETG tests and the fact that Dr. Skipper is claiming that these tests are highly innaccurate, so for you to tell me that anything above 500 is definite alcohol consumption only shows me that you don't know to much about ETG testing at all. This test is destroying lives, everyones body is different and ETG testing doesn't take that into consideration.
outraged wrote:After reading your post I guess I am wondering what makes you such an expert on ETG testing? I have tested positive 4 times in the past two years and have not had a drop of alcohol to drink. I am however, pre-diabetic and have frequent urinary tract infections, but the courts choose not to look at these facts. I am now facing time in prison because of these ETG tests and the fact that Dr. Skipper is claiming that these tests are highly innaccurate, so for you to tell me that anything above 500 is definite alcohol consumption only shows me that you don't know to much about ETG testing at all. This test is destroying lives, everyones body is different and ETG testing doesn't take that into consideration.
So please enlighten me on what you know about ETG testing.
outraged wrote:So please enlighten me on what you know about ETG testing.
Having been in the California Diversion program and a victim of false positive Etg tests I have made it a point to learn as much about this test as I could. It is highly inaccurate and it's use is affecting not just nurses and medical professionals but many others in mandated recovery programs. I have heard countless stories of people losing their children, and livelihoods due to this test.
This test came from Sweeden and was originally thought to indicte proof positive for alcohol consumption. The fact is there is only one clinical study ever done and it included just 55 people who were tested ater they drank a prescribed amount of alcohol. There was no non-drinking control group, and as you can see the initial cohort was quite small.
There are lists of foods and drinks to avoid floating around the internets - I found it best to eat only whole fresh foods and vegetables propared at home. Avoid sauces, marinades, and ethnic foods. Also avoid use of Balsalmic vinegar and anything that goes through a fermentation process such as sourdough breads.
If you have any kind of underlying medical condition such as diabetes, kidney disease, frequent headachs or migraines - Make sure this is documented by your medical professioinal and sent to your monitoring board.
Medications like Tylenol have been know to cause + Etg. Also some anti diabetic medications and medications used during dental procedures. especially epinepherine which is routinely given with Novacaine to lesson bleeding during procedures.
Of course it goes without saying to avoid waterless hand cleaner which is also pure alcohol - but did you know that Lysol spray is 95% alcohol, and Fabreez in almost as bad. One of my false positives was caused by Pam cooking spray which is 92% alcohol.
Hope some of this is helpful to you.
There is a class action lawsuit re: this test and if you have had a false + it would behoove you to at least register with the suit.
cougarnurse wrote:Why not show the Boards the incidence of the test being inaccurate? That may behoove you. Kinda reminds me of the 'fire-breather' incident in a way.
The boards largely do not care about the evidence that the test is inaccurate. Although there may be some change happening as some states are now no longer using the test and others have raised the cut-off levels. One has to remember that the Board as a general rule does not care about any individuals recovery. They are charged with public safety and when they thought they had a tool that could show positive proof of alcohol ingestion they thought they could make their jobs so much easier.
But as with all things that happen in "Officialdom" change happens very slowly. Once the boards admit that they have known for some time the test is inaccurate then they open themselves to a huge pool of potential lawsuits and legal actions. This is something they don't want to deal with.
Plus the labs are making a ton of money on this test and so they are vigorously defending it's efficacy.
All I can say to anyone caught in this is to perservere and work the strongest program you can. Ultimately it was evidence of the strong program I worked plus my otherwise 100% compliance with the Boards rules that got me through.
Hi Guys,
I personally have not had any problems (that I know of) with Etg, however here in CA a number of the nurses in my support group who are now on probation due to being kicked out of diversion have a class action suit going. Interesting how it is all about money and now the Doc who brought it here is acknowledging it's limitations. Since we have changed labs this year there doesn't seem to be so much trouble for the folks that were getting the positives before. Apparently there is also another motabolite called Ets that is supposed to be more accurate but WAY too expensive...
