Well, I don't even know what to say really, but i would like to know if there are others out there in my situation. I just admitted to the state police today that i took Demerol out of the Narc area where i work. Long story short..they caught me doing it. I could have denied it, they really had no proof...but i didn't. I'm not sure if i did the right thing. I'm scared out of my mind. The truth is, i didn't take the drugs for myself, but for my boyfriend (ex now) who i really don't want to turn in because he's the father of my girls. Did I mention he has a temper. I showed the cop the bruises I had on my arm the day i didn't bring any home for him. I explained my situation and of course the cop was understanding and asked if i wanted to press charges on him. But I can't...This only happend one time and believe me, it will never happen again. I want to take my kids and move away after this mess is cleaned up here. I have to get away from this man. I just would like to know what i can expect from this point? The Police Officer told me I can expect to possibley be prosecuted, arrested and having to post bail. My boss was understanding and stated she wouldn't press charges but of course would have to report this to the Board of Nursing. I'm guessing my licence will either be suspended or taken away right. I had to do the urine test, but not worried about that coming back "unclean" because I dont use the drugs. I just got into the wrong relationship and and made some stupid choices for him. I really just want to know what will happen from this point. Will they arrest the father of my children? Maybe he deserves to be, but I kinda thought they would put this all on me and I would pay the price. Afterall, they have no proof that he did anything, it's my word against his and I will pay the price, which I deserve. I feel for addicts because I know what it's like to live with one. If anyone can give me some idea of what to expect. I really dont want to shame my parents. They are elders and they are my rock. I am afraid to tell them about this. Trust me, they live in the 50's and will NOT be understanding. I have ruined everyone's life..and i don't know what to do! Where to turn..i think i have to go vomit now.
I'm very sorry this has happened to you. You will find that you are not alone. The very first thing you need to do is get yourself an lawyer and don't say ANYTHING else to the police.
As far as you liscense is conserned, find out if your state has a monitoring program for impared nurses. I know you may not have a problem yourself, but the BON's usually don't care. That is the best way to save your liscense.
I would like to add that even if you don't need to seek counseling for substance abuse issues, you should still seek counseling for your co-dependency issues. Things like this tend to happen in cycles, and if you do not work on changing yourself, you might end up in a similar situation- with the same guy or another one.
I am in no way blaming you for what happened, but you need to seriously look at the issues that caused you to allow this to happen.
And yes, your ex belongs in jail- you should press charges. Even if he is the father of your children, do you really want an abusive drug addict raising your kids???
AmandaWIRN wrote:I would like to add that even if you don't need to seek counseling for substance abuse issues, you should still seek counseling for your co-dependency issues. Things like this tend to happen in cycles, and if you do not work on changing yourself, you might end up in a similar situation- with the same guy or another one.
I am in no way blaming you for what happened, but you need to seriously look at the issues that caused you to allow this to happen.
And yes, your ex belongs in jail- you should press charges. Even if he is the father of your children, do you really want an abusive drug addict raising your kids???
Thanks so much for the advice. I thought I would feel better today, but its just gotten worse. My problem is, I have NO money. I can't afford a lawyer and I'm not going to be able to afford to place bond if I get arrested. I now have no job, I JUST rented a house that I moved all my stuff into and haven't even spent a night there yet, now I have to figure out a way to get out of that. I live in a small town where everyone knows everyone and there are no jobs for nurses here. No jobs period. I really messed up and it's at a point that i don't forsee me ever being able to work nursing again. I know i'm not alone, and many nurses have fought their way back into their career. But I'm just not sure i can do all that. Maybe it's too early. Don't even know what will happen to me. But I know it won't be good. As far as the father of my children go..he can rot in jail...i hate him! I just don't know how I'll break the news to my parents. They are going to be so disappointed and ashamed. And when my name gets put in the local paper for the crime I commited (the local paper here prints the names and crimes they commited after they have been arrested)..well, I mide as well shoot myself...my moms whole family lives here and she will be so embarrassed. I am just having all sorts of regrets...But thanks so much...i really appreciate you taking the time to help...this is what i need..I need advice and I need to know i'm not alone. Thank you so much..God Bless!
Your family might be the best resource for you right now- yes, you may be embarrassed, but sometimes when you think that everyone else is against you, the unconditional love of a parent is the only thing you've got to lean on.
The best thing to do right now is to worry about the things YOU can control. You can't control what the police, employers, or the Board of Nursing might do. You CAN control how you handle these situations, and you CAN work on improving yourself.
If you are near a University that has a law school, sometimes law schools will offer legal advice or counsel for those who can't afford it- I would check that out. If you are arrested, you should get a court-appointed attorney for free.
In the mean time, just worry about keeping you and your children safe, and lean on your family members who are supportive of you. You can get free help for co-dependency issues by attending Al-Anon or Nar-Anon meetings: Nar-Anon Family Groups
I know your terrified. I have almost been in the same situation. Hang in there and don't give up. You have to do what is right for you and your children. If your ex really cared about you and the kids he never would of put you in that position. It's going to be a rough road for awhile. Please talk to your parents and explain to them what happened. They probably will be disappointed but as parents ourselves we know sometimes kids disappoint but we never stop loving them. You need all the support you can get right now. I lost my job, my home, my car, friends, etc. I was in the newspaper and on the local news and I don't live in a small town. It was humiliating and embarrassing but I'm getting through it. It's been 2yrs for me and I'm still surviving and you will to. God bless you and I'll keep you in my prayers. DON'T GIVE UP, FIGHT HARD YOUR WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was in a situation of my own making, different circumstances, in 2000-'01. I had my RN lic suspended 18 mos, the 3 yrs restricted. No criminal action. It really sucked, but I did what I was had to do & it has passed. I now have pretty much the same opportunities as before, but some people (friends, family, employers) just cannot understand how you can be swayed by addiction, codependence, foolishness, bad judgement...& figure you're a loser,...whatever. Most people know someone they care about who has gone down the wrong path an amazing distance. You should expect your parents to love you, forgive you, & help you even if they can't understand. Not all parents can do that. I hope yours can.
At times like this I have learned it is normal for our soul to need what humans often can't give. I found that when I cried in my heart for God to help me he showed up. I found that God did for me what I could not & did not deserve. Try spiritual help. I hope you find those who can advise you, support you, comfort you, help you. I suggest contacting the 12 step recovery community, through the health dept, public defender victim assistance, counselling centers, halfway houses, online. Just ask people to try to point you to assistance. People are there who can show you a way if you keep going day by day. Look inside at what mistakes you made which put you in a position to do what you did.
Be very cautious with statements you make to officials. They are not there to help you, but they may. Their job is to investigate & serve justice to protect the public. They are not on your side, & your best bet is to keep your mouth shut until you can get advice about what your obligations and options are. Do not assume you can just blurt out what you are feeling with good intentions and things will go best. You are in trouble & it is time to be smart. You have been sick in your thinking & you need to deal with that. Officials want to see that you accept responsibility and want to deal with the causes and conditions that you need to change, & can be lenient (sp?) when they see you will deal with this. I hope you can find someone who will advise you or better yet to speak for you.
You will get through this, & you will be OK. You can make family, friends, & employers trust & respect you again & you can learn to make better choices & teach your kids from your mistakes.
grayson wrote:Thanks so much for the advice. I thought I would feel better today, but its just gotten worse. My problem is, I have NO money. I can't afford a lawyer and I'm not going to be able to afford to place bond if I get arrested. I now have no job, I JUST rented a house that I moved all my stuff into and haven't even spent a night there yet, now I have to figure out a way to get out of that. I live in a small town where everyone knows everyone and there are no jobs for nurses here. No jobs period. I really messed up and it's at a point that i don't forsee me ever being able to work nursing again. I know i'm not alone, and many nurses have fought their way back into their career. But I'm just not sure i can do all that. Maybe it's too early. Don't even know what will happen to me. But I know it won't be good. As far as the father of my children go..he can rot in jail...i hate him! I just don't know how I'll break the news to my parents. They are going to be so disappointed and ashamed. And when my name gets put in the local paper for the crime I commited (the local paper here prints the names and crimes they commited after they have been arrested)..well, I mide as well shoot myself...my moms whole family lives here and she will be so embarrassed. I am just having all sorts of regrets...But thanks so much...i really appreciate you taking the time to help...this is what i need..I need advice and I need to know i'm not alone. Thank you so much..God Bless!
If you were paying for malpractice insurance you should call them as you may have a benefit to cover a lawyer to protect your license - same if you were part of a Union - call your union rep.
God Bless you! You know what makes me so angry about all this? Even though I did not take this for myself I know what it's like to be addicted to something. I'm a smoker..and maybe that does qualify here, but trust me.,.i feel i NEED my smoke to get thru things! Like THIS..And it really makes me angry that others think they are perfect and no one makes mistakes! I read an artical about a nurse who was in the similar situation as I am, and one made a commnet, "I hope they throw the book at her!" With no regard to her backround or what might have caused her to do what she did. The same goes for the BON. It's like they don't give second chances. I understand their concern for the patients safety, but how many other professionals get second chances when they make a mistake? IT's like you are guilty and you have to prove your innocense..they don't even treat mass murders that way!!! Criminals get better treatment in a court of law! I'm not sure I want to be in this career and be treated that way...but I'm just angry right now..my fear went to anger...I guess that is the way it goes...I regret a lot of things..But I thank you all so much for your advice..you have helped in so many ways you'll never know...I will tell my parents, I'll have to eventually..I will not say anything else to the police, which i regret in the first place.... I'm not sure what I will do about my license at this point. Don't know if I'll even bother trying to get it back if I lose it. I question whether it's worth it anymore. I think about how I was a DARN good nurse..and I still am. I would never put any patient in danger. I busted my butt to HELP people, and when I do one thing wrong, that didn't even involve hurting a patient or risking one get hurt, well, then that's it? Maybe it's because i'm angry at myself, it's one day at a time...but it helps to get all these replies...I know I have to get out of this town and away from the one who caused all of this to happen in the first place. Does anyone know what happens if you apply for another license? I used to have a license in another state that i let expire..I was going to reapply for it tomorrow and hope that I got it before all this happens to the one I have now. I know eventually they would look up if I were licensed in any other state to inform them, but how long would that take? Or would it happen at all? OR would the other state do anything about it?..I'm not sure I want to continue in nursing..but i need to work while I go back to school...and i need to hold a good enough job to support myself and my boys...
Lynda Maier wrote:I know your terrified. I have almost been in the same situation. Hang in there and don't give up. You have to do what is right for you and your children. If your ex really cared about you and the kids he never would of put you in that position. It's going to be a rough road for awhile. Please talk to your parents and explain to them what happened. They probably will be disappointed but as parents ourselves we know sometimes kids disappoint but we never stop loving them. You need all the support you can get right now. I lost my job, my home, my car, friends, etc. I was in the newspaper and on the local news and I don't live in a small town. It was humiliating and embarrassing but I'm getting through it. It's been 2yrs for me and I'm still surviving and you will to. God bless you and I'll keep you in my prayers. DON'T GIVE UP, FIGHT HARD YOUR WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you so much for letting me know I am not alone! I really need that at this time! My fear went to anger, and who knows what's next, I stated in another letter that i'm not sure I want to be part of a career where mass murders get better treatment in a court of law then a good nurse gets infront of the BON. Like they are all perfect and have never make mistakes...I'm just not sure I want to be a part of that anymore..it almost makes me ashamed to admit i'm a nurse in a way...maybe it's because i'm angry right now..at myself, at everything...I hope I can find someone to legally help me..but i'm so broke i can't even afford to eat! I have no money saved, I am in debt so high my credit sucks...I have no family to borrow money from..no friends...it's just me and my boys and my parents..and my parents are struggling financially as well...there is just no way i could even afford to post my bond if i do get arrested...so there ya go..i'll keep you posted...thanks again...thanks so much!
beachfandan wrote:I was in a situation of my own making, different circumstances, in 2000-'01. I had my RN lic suspended 18 mos, the 3 yrs restricted. No criminal action. It really sucked, but I did what I was had to do & it has passed. I now have pretty much the same opportunities as before, but some people (friends, family, employers) just cannot understand how you can be swayed by addiction, codependence, foolishness, bad judgement...& figure you're a loser,...whatever. Most people know someone they care about who has gone down the wrong path an amazing distance. You should expect your parents to love you, forgive you, & help you even if they can't understand. Not all parents can do that. I hope yours can.
At times like this I have learned it is normal for our soul to need what humans often can't give. I found that when I cried in my heart for God to help me he showed up. I found that God did for me what I could not & did not deserve. Try spiritual help. I hope you find those who can advise you, support you, comfort you, help you. I suggest contacting the 12 step recovery community, through the health dept, public defender victim assistance, counselling centers, halfway houses, online. Just ask people to try to point you to assistance. People are there who can show you a way if you keep going day by day. Look inside at what mistakes you made which put you in a position to do what you did.
Be very cautious with statements you make to officials. They are not there to help you, but they may. Their job is to investigate & serve justice to protect the public. They are not on your side, & your best bet is to keep your mouth shut until you can get advice about what your obligations and options are. Do not assume you can just blurt out what you are feeling with good intentions and things will go best. You are in trouble & it is time to be smart. You have been sick in your thinking & you need to deal with that. Officials want to see that you accept responsibility and want to deal with the causes and conditions that you need to change, & can be lenient (sp?) when they see you will deal with this. I hope you can find someone who will advise you or better yet to speak for you.
You will get through this, & you will be OK. You can make family, friends, & employers trust & respect you again & you can learn to make better choices & teach your kids from your mistakes.
I am currently in a similar situation. The only difference is that I took the drug for myself and not someone else. I am in recovery and to tell you the truth, this incident has changed my life in good ways. I am more greatful and more prayerful than I ever was. You just need to pray and put it in God's hands, I know its difficult, trust me, I am still not working and still have to go through the court system. I was able to save my licence by joining the impaired nurse program in my state. My lawyer said I might get a misdemeanor which I can later get expunged from my record. Be strong, be hopefull and prayerfull.
I strongly advice that you seek legal help immediately for this!!
And what ever you do, DO NOT talk to the BON investigator without legal counsel!!
I am not a lawyer, but have read a lot and helped others with questions by looking at states nursing regs. Diverting drugs for personal use and diverting for sale or distribution to others are 2 VERY different things.
personal diversion is the result of addiction, which can be treated but diverting for distribution is much worse, ( in the eyes of the law and the BON)
There is no way that you can place this act on your exhusband, abuse or not. You alone commited the act, and it was not something that you were Had to do... Just because he asked you to get him drugs does not make him the guilty one here... you could have said no.
I am worried about this for you and how this will be handled both criminally and by the BON.
Well, to give you all sort of an update...I have explained things to my parents..(in the best way i could) and yes, very disappointed, but at the same time, my father used to be a Deputy and he knows the legal aspect of things...one good thing..the Trooper did not read me my rights nor did he explain i didn't have to answer anything without a lawyer present...(something they are required to do when questioning you about anything)...my father said the trooper made a lot of mistakes which may help in my case...he verbally abused me and basically scared me so bad that even if i wasn't guilty i probably would have said I was...the Trooper did call me..and of course as i should have known his attitude was so much worse..he just wanted an admission from me and he could care less about anything else..he was so rude on the phone...as far as I'm concerned, i will NEVER trust the police again! Anyway..i just got out of the hospital..spent 9 days there with pneumonia...so i have to call the trooper back tomorrow and find out what's next..the only info i got from him was that I needed $300 + for a "fine" and he needed my fingerprints...then i'm sure court will follow...I can not afford a lawyer, but i do plan on figuring out a way to get one..my mouth is shut from this point on...not admitting to anything...infact..quite the opposite..it's just terrible when the worse regret is telling the cop i actually did it...but..other then a written statement..he has nothing...and i really didn't write much that could harm me. Something along the lines of tampering with the demerol because i was going to take it, but after coming to my senses, and realizing that i was doing it out of fear for my safety, i put it back...i wrote that i didn't want the responsibility on my hands if somene were to OD or die... so..i guess i'm just playin it day by day...i honestly don't know what i'll do about my nursing career...we'll see what happens when I go infront of the board...if they are willing to HELP me and even make me do a treatment program...whatever..i would be willing to do that...if they could give me a second chance....that would be great...but if they can't be understanding and things get too out of hand..and i'm looked at like a criminal and loser, well, then i think i'll change career paths...don't know what i'd actually DO..sux cause i'm stuck in this dump of a town that has nothing to offer...but i'm tired..i really wish i wouldn't have went to nursing school ya know..it's like i worked so hard for something and was so proud of myself for getting through it as a single mom...i have never been proud of myself before..EVER..until I graduated nursing school and knew i did it raising a boy, working two jobs and ending up pregnant during my last semester...along with all the bad luck i had of my father having open heart surgery during my finals, my son going through testing for what doctors thought was a fatal disease...all the stress i endured with personal issues and living in a new city to boot...but i did all that and I got through it all and I did it! I graduated! I passed my boards on my first try and man..i did the thing i NEVER thought i'd do...and now for what? To throw it all away...i did it all for nothing... Anyway, thanks again guys for your support...if anyone knows by the way what will happen if my License from the other state i worked in goes through ( i let it expire two yrs ago, but recently sent in for a renewal knowing i was eventually going to move there) If I get it before anything happens here, will they take that away as well? Or do you have to actually do something in that state? And if anyone knows what i may be expecting from this point on with the court system, please let me know...if i didn't actually take the drugs...can i go to prison? Or will they most likely put me on probation or something since it's my first offense? I went from feeling sad and ashamed about this to really PO'd! Don't get me wrong..still ashamed i did this in the first place..but even my drug test came back negative...should be proof right there that i didn't take it! Thanks again guys! Y'all hang in there as well!
whome3 wrote:grayson,
I strongly advice that you seek legal help immediately for this!!
And what ever you do, DO NOT talk to the BON investigator without legal counsel!!
I am not a lawyer, but have read a lot and helped others with questions by looking at states nursing regs. Diverting drugs for personal use and diverting for sale or distribution to others are 2 VERY different things.
personal diversion is the result of addiction, which can be treated but diverting for distribution is much worse, ( in the eyes of the law and the BON)
There is no way that you can place this act on your exhusband, abuse or not. You alone commited the act, and it was not something that you were Had to do... Just because he asked you to get him drugs does not make him the guilty one here... you could have said no.
I am worried about this for you and how this will be handled both criminally and by the BON.
Thanks for giving us the update. We all do stupid stuff sometimes, the brain is never in proper gear when we do. Hope this resolves favorably for you and that you can get back to a manageable life. Continue to keep us up to date and remember we care.
I'm in a very similar situation. I was terminated for diversion. I started into the nursing assistance program, but unfortunately, it wasn't done early enough. I wish I had known how to admit it before being terminated. I think that my employer would have worked with me if I only I would have admitted it. I still haven't talked with my parents, siblings, and kids. I don't know how and haven't had time to learn. I was terminated on July 2nd and started my intake process that same night. My newest fear after reading stories on here is, will I go to jail? Can anyone tell me? I have not heard from an officer yet, but am scared to death.:nurse-hang:
selfish wrote:I'm in a very similar situation. I was terminated for diversion. I started into the nursing assistance program, but unfortunately, it wasn't done early enough. I wish I had known how to admit it before being terminated. I think that my employer would have worked with me if I only I would have admitted it. I still haven't talked with my parents, siblings, and kids. I don't know how and haven't had time to learn. I was terminated on July 2nd and started my intake process that same night. My newest fear after reading stories on here is, will I go to jail? Can anyone tell me? I have not heard from an officer yet, but am scared to death.:nurse-hang:
Well, I hope you still check this site for advice! I would like to tell you this from what i've experienced thus far.. I don't think you will go to jail..I am unlucky to "do time" in my situation and I actually did the stupid thing of admitting it to the state police officer and writing a statement! I am still going through the court process..I will be going to trial. BUt my Lawyer said that even the prosecutor doesn't want to end up chargin me with a felony if he can avoid it otherwise i won't be able to find a job in any line of work let alone nursing. I have spoken with the investigator for the BON and he told me I should call and get into the HPRP group which, in my state, is a group for people in the medical field who are addicts and still want to keep their license and work. I don't know much about it as I've never had to go through this before, but basically the investigator told me that if i take the blame of being the "addict" (verses my ex whom i got it for), and get into this HPRP thing I will be able to keep my RN license. The only bad thing about it is that whomever i work for in the future has to know i'm in this program because i have to be monitered and drug tested for at least 2 yrs. The confusing thing is my LAWYER told me I probably wouldn't be able to work as an RN anymore and I should find a different career. I don't know if he just doesn't know how the Licensure process works for this kind of charge, or if this is something the court is going to order for me? I don't know. But it's unlikely I will go to jail because i have never done anything wrong legally in the past and this is my first offense. To give a quick update to everyone, They are basically chargin JUST me of this whole "larceny" thing. My ex denied everything (no surprise) and of course since they have my admission to taking the narcs, they are just looking at ME! So my lawyer told me to go ahead and talk to the investigator for the BON which i did. The investigator advised me to take the blame and state the narcs were for me so the BON would be easier on me and more lilkely to let me keep my license if i follow through with this HPRP program. So i will soon find out if this guy was being honest with me or just trying to get me to admit to something I didn't do ...because i'm sure my time will come where i meet with the board. I just hope I can go through with this monitering thing. Gosh, it can't be fun to go to work everyday knowing that you are being watched like a hawk and not trusted by your bosses and fellow employees..i just don't know if i can do it! I want to keep my license but at the same time, i don't want to be treated like dirt! Not only that..but i have to find a job! Who will hire me when they know what i've done!? These are just a few of the things that are stressing me out these days! I did of course tell my parents..who have, for the most part, been supportive..I don't get sick to my stomach all the time like i used to..but i do at least once a day when i think about everything..i just wanted to give an update and let this other person who is "Scared to Death" know that you will not likely go to jail. Especially since you admitted it. The courts LOVE when you admit your guilt..it's an ego trip for the prosecutor..give em what they want and move on..that's all you can do...i just know i HATE cops now..(even though my father was a cop and I was going to be one before i went to nursing school) LOL..i shouldn't say i HATE them..but i dont trust them and will never volunteer information again! Not for anything! Even if i witness something! LOL ...thanks guys..and please keep writing..i still need support!
It sounds like you need a new lawyer! I basically fired my lawyer back in the day because he started telling me to kis my nursing career goodbye. the fact is many nurses get in trouble and many get better and continue nursing. The monitoring restictions are sometimes horrendous and Draconian but I assure you that this too shall pass.
You have admitted to crime and should pay the consequences for that but that should not preclude your practicing nursing as long as you meet any stipulations offered by the board.
From your posts it does not sound as if you are addict so why admit to being one? Unless there is something your not telling I would stick to the co-dependency defense and see what happens. If they don't have a positive UDS they have nothing. Of course co-dependency is a kind of addiction in and of itself and needs treatment just like any other mental health issue.
I encourage you to look into a 12 step group that deals with co-dependence.
If you end up in a monitoring program don't worry about what other people think. As Dr. Phil says " You wouldn't worry about what people thought of you if you realized how rarely they did." I actually can't stand DR. Phil but I like the quote.
My personal experience with being in a monitoring program was mostly positive. I made many good friends and we all helped eachother along the way. While the BON certainly gives you that "under the microscope feeling" I never felt that way at work. My employer was very supportive and highly vested in my success. They were discrete and no-one knew my situation unless I told them.
hppygr8ful wrote:It sounds like you need a new lawyer! I basically fired my lawyer back in the day because he started telling me to kis my nursing career goodbye. the fact is many nurses get in trouble and many get better and continue nursing. The monitoring restictions are sometimes horrendous and Draconian but I assure you that this too shall pass.
You have admitted to crime and should pay the consequences for that but that should not preclude your practicing nursing as long as you meet any stipulations offered by the board.
From your posts it does not sound as if you are addict so why admit to being one? Unless there is something your not telling I would stick to the co-dependency defense and see what happens. If they don't have a positive UDS they have nothing. Of course co-dependency is a kind of addiction in and of itself and needs treatment just like any other mental health issue.
I encourage you to look into a 12 step group that deals with co-dependence.
If you end up in a monitoring program don't worry about what other people think. As Dr. Phil says " You wouldn't worry about what people thought of you if you realized how rarely they did." I actually can't stand DR. Phil but I like the quote.
My personal experience with being in a monitoring program was mostly positive. I made many good friends and we all helped eachother along the way. While the BON certainly gives you that "under the microscope feeling" I never felt that way at work. My employer was very supportive and highly vested in my success. They were discrete and no-one knew my situation unless I told them.
Peace and Namaste
Hppy
I definetly agree that my situation is just as cause for therapy and a monitoring system as being addicted to the drug myself! i would never deny help that is for sure! So do you mind if I ask you what you went through in your monitoring program? Was it like rehab or something? I'm just wondering what I am facing...and as far as my lawyer goes..yes,,he bugs me...he's a nice guy and pretty smart..but he doesn't let me get a word in edge wise when we meet...he does all the talkin..and he is one of those goody goody lawyer's who never does any wrong ya know..ahhh...oh well..that's what you get for livin in a small town..i just can't wait for all of this court stuff to be over so i can move out of town!!!
grayson wrote:I definetly agree that my situation is just as cause for therapy and a monitoring system as being addicted to the drug myself! i would never deny help that is for sure! So do you mind if I ask you what you went through in your monitoring program? Was it like rehab or something? I'm just wondering what I am facing...and as far as my lawyer goes..yes,,he bugs me...he's a nice guy and pretty smart..but he doesn't let me get a word in edge wise when we meet...he does all the talkin..and he is one of those goody goody lawyer's who never does any wrong ya know..ahhh...oh well..that's what you get for livin in a small town..i just can't wait for all of this court stuff to be over so i can move out of town!!!
The program I went through was the California Nurse Diversion program. The experiences I related are based on that programk. I say this because every state has their own program and what applies in one state may not be true in another. But my experience will give you a rough idea of what you may experience.
I was fired - for stealing benedryl which I used to try to kill myself - I went into a treatment program for alcoholism and depression and during that time I got hooked up with the BON. There were a series of meetings and evaluations followed by a contract with included total abstinance from drugs and alcohol, daily AA/NA meetings for 90 days, Then 3 times a week then weekly, random uds screening, and monitored workplace - I was in this program for 3 1/2 years.
Some times it was pure H*ll - but I learned alot about myself along the way and am a healthy and good nurse today. Still continue to struggle with many issues but am better able to meet lives challenges than I was back in those days - My whole story is posted here on the site somewhere.
hppygr8ful wrote:The program I went through was the California Nurse Diversion program. The experiences I related are based on that programk. I say this because every state has their own program and what applies in one state may not be true in another. But my experience will give you a rough idea of what you may experience.
I was fired - for stealing benedryl which I used to try to kill myself - I went into a treatment program for alcoholism and depression and during that time I got hooked up with the BON. There were a series of meetings and evaluations followed by a contract with included total abstinance from drugs and alcohol, daily AA/NA meetings for 90 days, Then 3 times a week then weekly, random uds screening, and monitored workplace - I was in this program for 3 1/2 years.
Some times it was pure H*ll - but I learned alot about myself along the way and am a healthy and good nurse today. Still continue to struggle with many issues but am better able to meet lives challenges than I was back in those days - My whole story is posted here on the site somewhere.
Peace and Namaste
Hppy
WOW...congrats for successfully completing all of that! You have a lot of courage! I just don't know if I would be able to do that! I really give you alot of credit! I know I have to think of my kids when it comes to deciding if I want to fight for my license. But I have alot of thinking to do..not even sure if i want to practice anymore... I am just goin through a state of confusion right now..not sure if i want to go back to school for something different...i just don't think i am strong enough to go through all of that! Not to mention the fact that I would still have to find a job. Find a place to hire me after knowing what I am going through. I just don't know. Anyway. Thanks for letting me know what you have went through. I will update you when I know more about what I am going to face. By the way, I really liked that Dr Phil quote as well. Thanks for sharing your experiences!
I know what your going through right now, in a similar situation. I am an addict and diverted narcs. I am faced with finding someone to hire me very shortly...I have never thought maybe this is not worth it, i might one day. But for now, i am taking it one day at a time and following all regulations by my BON. My attitude has been, Just do what they want and get past this, as much as all of this stinks, i am so happy to be clean and recovering. Life is great without being controlled by opiates, for me. And i will do whatever it takes to mend my mistakes...good luck to you, keep your head up
You might want to contact the American Association of Nurse Attorneys to see if they can direct you to a pro bono attorney, or one that will design a payment schedule. Trying to face the board alone generally results in less than desirable outcomes.
[QUOTE=CRNAspa;88337]You might want to contact the American Association of Nurse Attorneys to see if they can direct you to a pro bono attorney, or one that will design a payment schedule. Trying to face the board alone generally results in less than desirable outcomes.
So do you think I made a mistake talking with the investigator for the BON? He actually came to my HOUSE and spoke with me. Drove 3 hrs to do so. My lawyer told me to go ahead and talk to him. He was VERY nice and even gave me advice. He was the one who told me to contact our states program for addicts in the medical field. He said if I contacted them before he did, he would run that by the BON as a positive thing. So i did. SO when I do have to meet the BON I should still have a lawyer? Even if I admitted to the investigator it was my fault and comply with whatever they instruct me to do to keep my license? I'm not going to fight anything, I'm too tired to fight after all i've been through this far legally..My hearing is Monday, I still don't know what's going to happen to me with the court system. I'm just asking whomever has been there before. Should I have a lawyer if I'm admitting fault? Will the BON really try to screw me and take away my license, therefore i need to have a lawyer to make sure they are going by my rights? Are they THAT bad that they would rather let me go then help me? If my state (Michigan) has a monitoring program, then you would think they would use it right? I will still check out that sight you reccommend for lawyers pro bono, because I know i can't afford one for this..heck, i'm struggling to pay my lawyer right now for this court case..$2500!!!! Not to mention the fines I may have after this is over. Anyway..thanks so much for walking me through this! I also wanted to ask this, those of you who were fired and had to face finding employment after the fact, what was it like? Did you really get interviews after telling your story on applications? Is there help out there in finding employment while you are in treatment? It just sucks because I applied for my TN license before all this happened to me, my father was a police officer and he told me to go through with the application process because they could not release my arrest on my backround check until I was CHARGED or found guilty. He said that if they had an arrest down for me on my backround check, and I was found not guilty, I could sue the state for putting that on my record. So i went through with sending my application in to TN BON and all I heard back from them was there was a "problem" with my reinstatement. So i take it they found out I was arrested?? I don't know how?? So does this mean that I literally have to stay in Michigan for the whole time I am in treatment? Can I EVER apply for a license in a different state? There are no jobs here in MI..not only that, but I really don't want to stay in Michigan, especially this town! It was my goal in life to move south! If anyone has had a similiar situation, let me know how it went for you. Thanks much guys! Appreciate it more than you know! Everyone has made me feel SO much better about things!
The practice of law is just like medicine in that there is a trend to more and more specialization. Criminal law is different than civil law which is different than administrative law. Facing the board of nursing isn't the same as a facing the criminal justice system in several ways. Two of the biggest differences is they can use "hear say" evidence and they don't have to read you your rights ("You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can, and will be used against you..."). I consult with an attorney who specializes in licensure defense. The board of nursing has one job, to protect the public from unsafe nurses. While some boards do have the impaired nurse's interests in mind, that's pretty unusual. Each state nurse practice act is similar but different than every other nurse practice act. The board of nursing will develop a "consent agreement" which is a contract that will determine your ability to practice nursing now and in the future. It will spell out how long your license will be suspended (if at all), how long before you may petition the board for reinstatement, what you must do before you can apply for reinstatement (have a psychiatric or chemical dependency assessment, how often and for how long you will have to provide urines for tox screens, how many support groups you have to attend in a week and for how long, how often your boss will have to provide reports to the board if/when you return to practice, controlled substances restrictions, if you have to have a backround check before applying for reinstatement, how long your license will be suspended, how long your license will have restrictions, etc. etc.).
As an example of how an attorney can be helpful, 2 CRNAs I'm working with both had clauses in their consent agreement stating they would have to seek permission from the board before they could accept a job as a nurse anesthetist...for 10 years! This was the first time their attorney had ever seen this. Before signing the agreement, the attorney worked with the board's attorney to get that down to 3 years. I guarantee you, the CRNAs would not have been able to get that reduced if they had represented themselves.
Your ability to practice as a nurse is resting in the hands of the board of nursing. Would you face criminal charges without an attorney? If you were facing civil action in the form of a law suit, would you go without an attorney? This is no different. That's the reason I recommend to every nurse facing the board of nursing, they should consider obtaining representation by an attorney who knows and understand the nurse practice act. That's exactly why I recommend nurse attorneys (The American Association of Nurse Attorneys is the link to their web site. I don't know if they have attorneys in your area who provide representation for free (pro bono), but it's certainly worth a phone call or email to find out).
Everything may go well. But if it doesn't, there may be little an attorney can do after the fact. I don't say any of this to frighten or discourage you. In an ideal world everyone struggling with substance abuse or chemical dependence would automatically enter treatment and the board of nursing would understand and do what's best for these nurses. Unfortunately that's not the way the real world operates. There is still a great deal of ignorance in the nursing profession about this disease and how to deal with nurses, doctors, pharmacists and other health care professionals who have it.
CRNAspa wrote:You might want to contact the American Association of Nurse Attorneys to see if they can direct you to a pro bono attorney, or one that will design a payment schedule. Trying to face the board alone generally results in less than desirable outcomes.
So do you think I made a mistake talking with the investigator for the BON? He actually came to my HOUSE and spoke with me. Drove 3 hrs to do so. My lawyer told me to go ahead and talk to him. He was VERY nice and even gave me advice. He was the one who told me to contact our states program for addicts in the medical field. He said if I contacted them before he did, he would run that by the BON as a positive thing. So i did. SO when I do have to meet the BON I should still have a lawyer? Even if I admitted to the investigator it was my fault and comply with whatever they instruct me to do to keep my license? I'm not going to fight anything, I'm too tired to fight after all i've been through this far legally..My hearing is Monday, I still don't know what's going to happen to me with the court system. I'm just asking whomever has been there before. Should I have a lawyer if I'm admitting fault? Will the BON really try to screw me and take away my license, therefore i need to have a lawyer to make sure they are going by my rights? Are they THAT bad that they would rather let me go then help me? If my state (Michigan) has a monitoring program, then you would think they would use it right? I will still check out that sight you reccommend for lawyers pro bono, because I know i can't afford one for this..heck, i'm struggling to pay my lawyer right now for this court case..$2500!!!! Not to mention the fines I may have after this is over. Anyway..thanks so much for walking me through this! I also wanted to ask this, those of you who were fired and had to face finding employment after the fact, what was it like? Did you really get interviews after telling your story on applications? Is there help out there in finding employment while you are in treatment? It just sucks because I applied for my TN license before all this happened to me, my father was a police officer and he told me to go through with the application process because they could not release my arrest on my backround check until I was CHARGED or found guilty. He said that if they had an arrest down for me on my backround check, and I was found not guilty, I could sue the state for putting that on my record. So i went through with sending my application in to TN BON and all I heard back from them was there was a "problem" with my reinstatement. So i take it they found out I was arrested?? I don't know how?? So does this mean that I literally have to stay in Michigan for the whole time I am in treatment? Can I EVER apply for a license in a different state? There are no jobs here in MI..not only that, but I really don't want to stay in Michigan, especially this town! It was my goal in life to move south! If anyone has had a similiar situation, let me know how it went for you. Thanks much guys! Appreciate it more than you know! Everyone has made me feel SO much better about things!
As I said to you before, stealing narcs with the intent to distribute to others is much worse than stealing for personal use. You really need a lawyer for this with the BON, altho the damage is there because you basically admitted to the investigator what you did and why. The idea he gave to say it was for you and to say that you are an addict could save you but it is not certain how it works in MI and what Jack said as far as trying to wing it alone is true....
CRNAspa wrote:The practice of law is just like medicine in that there is a trend to more and more specialization. Criminal law is different than civil law which is different than administrative law. Facing the board of nursing isn't the same as a facing the criminal justice system in several ways. Two of the biggest differences is they can use "hear say" evidence and they don't have to read you your rights ("You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can, and will be used against you..."). I consult with an attorney who specializes in licensure defense. The board of nursing has one job, to protect the public from unsafe nurses. While some boards do have the impaired nurse's interests in mind, that's pretty unusual. Each state nurse practice act is similar but different than every other nurse practice act. The board of nursing will develop a "consent agreement" which is a contract that will determine your ability to practice nursing now and in the future. It will spell out how long your license will be suspended (if at all), how long before you may petition the board for reinstatement, what you must do before you can apply for reinstatement (have a psychiatric or chemical dependency assessment, how often and for how long you will have to provide urines for tox screens, how many support groups you have to attend in a week and for how long, how often your boss will have to provide reports to the board if/when you return to practice, controlled substances restrictions, if you have to have a backround check before applying for reinstatement, how long your license will be suspended, how long your license will have restrictions, etc. etc.).
As an example of how an attorney can be helpful, 2 CRNAs I'm working with both had clauses in their consent agreement stating they would have to seek permission from the board before they could accept a job as a nurse anesthetist...for 10 years! This was the first time their attorney had ever seen this. Before signing the agreement, the attorney worked with the board's attorney to get that down to 3 years. I guarantee you, the CRNAs would not have been able to get that reduced if they had represented themselves.
Your ability to practice as a nurse is resting in the hands of the board of nursing. Would you face criminal charges without an attorney? If you were facing civil action in the form of a law suit, would you go without an attorney? This is no different. That's the reason I recommend to every nurse facing the board of nursing, they should consider obtaining representation by an attorney who knows and understand the nurse practice act. That's exactly why I recommend nurse attorneys (The American Association of Nurse Attorneys is the link to their web site. I don't know if they have attorneys in your area who provide representation for free (pro bono), but it's certainly worth a phone call or email to find out).
Everything may go well. But if it doesn't, there may be little an attorney can do after the fact. I don't say any of this to frighten or discourage you. In an ideal world everyone struggling with substance abuse or chemical dependence would automatically enter treatment and the board of nursing would understand and do what's best for these nurses. Unfortunately that's not the way the real world operates. There is still a great deal of ignorance in the nursing profession about this disease and how to deal with nurses, doctors, pharmacists and other health care professionals who have it.
Gosh thank you so much for all of the information! I really didn't know it was that involved! I mean, I know they take it seriously, but honestly I didn't figure they would screw you over if you were admitting you needed help and seeking it openly! WOW...again i just feel like a piece of S#&%.. like everyone else is so perfect they never make mistakes! That is just how i feel lately..like i'm crap! Everyone else is better.....well, i made a mistake..and it may have been a HUGE mistake..but i made it and I can't go back..so i'll have to face the music..if i decide i want to go through with it..i just don't want to regret it years from now ya know..if i decided not to go through with it and then regretted that...i worked so hard for my license in the first place..worked so hard in school as a single mom...that is the only reason i'll most likely go through with it..even if i don't practice for the rest of my life, i'll at least get through this. I'll check out those sights and see what i can find out as far as lawyers go..maybe i can find one that will except payments? I don't know...but i really appreciate your advice!!! I'll use it! What about getting a license in another state? I know every state is different, but what if you do all that is asked of you by the BON of the original state, and get through it all, and your re-licensed and working. Does it stay on your backround if you apply in another state? Forever? Or are all states different in that as well? I just need to know because if this is somthing I am going to have to face for the rest of my life, at least the rest of my career, then I'm pretty confident in saying I won't stick with this as a career. It's one thing to suffer while you go through it and make yourself better. It's enough that I'll never forget what I did and it will be in my heart and my memory forever...but it's another to be haunted by it for the rest of your life in every job you take...or at least reminded of it..I know this will stick with me for the rest of my life in mind and heart, but i don't need to be reminded of it everytime I start a new job, or relocate, or move on..i just can't do that. I won't do that..Life is too short..i realize that now..and I want to move on one day..push it in the back of my head and move on..i can't do that if i am being judged by every BON in every state, and every job i take...Let me know if you have any idea about that. I appreciate it! Oh and to Whone3..thanks to you as well..i really appreciate your advie and NEED it!!
Chemical dependence is a chronic, progressive, unnecessarily fatal disease with the brain as it's target organ. The areas affected are the most primitive areas on the evolutionary scale. These areas are involved in motivation, pleasure, and survival. As a result of genetic susceptibility, the correct environmental stressors, and exposure to the right chemical for the right amount of time triggers the disease. As a result of these changes, your brain begins to believe the drug is necessary for survival. Continued use strengthens the alterations in the brain, increasing the cravings until nothing else matters but obtaining and using the drug(s). This means that those things that used to be important for survival (eating, drinking, sex, taking care of children, doing a good job, etc.) no longer matter. Obtaining and using are all that matter. Very few people are able to stop this process on their own. It can take 18 months - 2 years of abstinence for the brain to recover as much as it can. Unfortunately, the changes never return to pre-dependence levels. This is why dependence is a chronic condition. Research shows that even those with 20+ years of clean and sober time can still have those areas of the brain stimulated by "cues", those people, places, and things (music, smells, environments, etc.) associated with chemical use. In many instances the person isn't consciously aware their brain is reacting to cues. But when these cues continue, it can begin the process of altered thinking which eventually leads to "cravings" and thoughts of using. If these thoughts aren't recognized and interrupted, return to use is inevitable. This is why regular attendance at support groups (12 Step or non-12 step) is so important. The others in the group will most likely recognize the early signs before the person does. This can allow the group to help support the person in strengthening their program of recovery. The most likely reason a person relapses is because they begin to believe they don't need to do anything to remain clean and sober.
As far as other boards of nursing knowing about your history of discipline by your current board, yes, they will know. Boards of nursing communicate with each other more efficiently than they have in the past. This doesn't mean you can't get a license in other states or return to the practice of nursing. What it does mean is picking a state that has a strong commitment to alternative programs that actually help the nurse achieve and maintain recovery. Here in Ohio, the board of nursing has become significantly more punitive in their dealings with recovering nurses. While they still list an "alternative program" in the nurse practice act, fewer and fewer nurses are approved for entering that program. On the other hand, Kentucky and Indiana have programs that work well with nurses who really want to recover and return to practice. A good nurse attorney will understand the intricacies of the alternative program and help guide and advise their client in how best to deal with the board while in the alternative to discipline program.
None of this means you can't practice again. What it does mean is you have to make a commitment to your recovery while keeping the people who can help you achieve the highest level of sobriety within the bounds of the nurse practice act.
:eek: Scared out of my mind I was terminated for job for being impaired, and diversion. It's complicated . I was impaired with a new med I had taken from my pych doc. on midnightshift. I have already been a year in recovery for opiatesand xanax,been on suboxone,They found this all out when they put me on a medical leave after sending me to empoyee health then employee assistance,set me up for therapy/and couselign..cleared to go back to work and occupational health tells me go to HR first its' policy , they terminate me. I feel screwed ..thinking on getting a lawyer because isn't there a Americans with disabilities law there is somethign in there that protects addicts and those in recovery, also depression/anxiety/etc.anyway..GRAYSON..I FEEL FOR YOU I HAVE BEEN READING YOUR POST..I FEEL THIS TIME AROUND I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO CALL HPRP AND SELF REPORT..ALTHOUGH THERE WAS NO DIVERSION, they. pulled charts for two weeks prior to the "impaired" event, and found that i had not signed out some meds, misc, narcs, benzo's, cough meds., I had said that I ahd been seeing my doc those weeks and was on quite a few meds for depression and anxiety and i was complaining to her about forfetfullness and memory loss and inability to sleep. I told management the were extreme errors of omission. I had relapse at home the day they sent me home from work saying "they didn't me and I wasn't myslef the night befor and they had some thingso look into"..they treated like a dog I was new to the floor I had been recently displaced there so i felt like an out cast anyway..I thought my life was over ..I ransacked my house I couldn't sleep did?'t know how to tell my husband i found a few old xanax.
I am from MI anyone know a pro bono lawyer??:nurse-soapbox:
You can try contacting the nursing association in your state. Also, contact the American Association of Nurse Attorneys (taana.org) or call their referral line...866-807-7133. If you have your own professional liability insurance, contact your carrier to see if licensure defense is covered. If so, they can provide you with a referral to an attorney.
The ADA covers those people in recovery. It does not cover someone with active addiction. It also doesn't cover someone fired for diversion or practicing while impaired, even if the impairment results from a valid prescription and the medications are being taken as prescribed. failure to properly document administration of controlled substance is also considered a violation of the nurse practice act. Nurses with chronic pain who take prescribed opioids is one example of being at "risk" for board action if they are impaired as a result of their medication. You might want to check out a program from the Center for American Nurses regarding impairment issues. If I'm not mistaken it covers your situation pretty well. It caught my eye when I was doing a search for information on impaired practice issues.
I know an issue that arises from time to time is a CRNA in my state may be taking suboxone (naltrexone + buprenorphine) to decrease cravings and prevent withdrawal symptoms. The would like to reenter practice but they can't because there is a partial agonist effect on the mu receptors (it's the reason it stops cravings and withdrawal so well). Several studies have been performed on the cognitive effects of suboxone vs methadone (the "other" replacement therapy). While there is significantly less alteration than with methadone, there is still enough that the AANA Peer Assistance Advisors Committee recommendation is no CRNA returns to practice while on ANY controlled, mood altering substance. (SSRIs do not fall into this category).
Impaired practice can result from any number of things. While substance abuse and chemical dependence are the winner by a long shot (85% of impaired anesthesia providers are substance abusers or chemically dependent. I don't know the percentage of nurses as a whole, but I have no doubt it's equally as high), there can be psychiatric reasons as well as physical reasons a nurse may not be able to provide safe nursing care and are therefore considered to be impaired.
Thank you for your advice glad to know someone is listening. I've been a staff nurse for 18 years ..I'll never forget how HR and management made me feel, like a loser, a worthless bum with issues that they wanted no part of. A patient killer. In one of our last meetings.,(when they were reviewing my errors).. I said, "you know I don't mean to sound
harsh but I have been in staff nursing for 18 years, I seen some stuff and you don't have to be impaired for these things to happen, they happen!",,they just get swept up under the rug or become someone elses problem, depends on who it is and the day,which way the cards are dealt. Staff nurse nursing becomes just like highschool, it's so clicky and management becomes the same way.AS much as I love the rewards of bedside nursing so tired of same short staffing cutting corners, and the bull****...I will fight for my license but pretty much thru with staff nursing. By the way did u draw Frankenstein too?
OK..an update and a big thanks to Srenitplzo8 and Jack..just read your inputs...first off..want to say this...after all is said and done, I'm kinda thankful this all happened to me..not because it forced me to get out of the life of an abuser (my ex)who physically and mentally abused me everyday...but also to realize that I may have a problem as well...even though i did not take the Demerol for myself..I realized that ever since my car accident 10 yrs ago I have been on chronic meds on and off for that whole time..and I think in the end, it's what impaired my judgement on everyday decisions..I never looked at my medication as a problem because I never had the urge for stronger meds, nor did I ever think about taking IV meds for myself..i took them as prescribed...but then when this all happened to me, I took a step back an dlooked at my life and realized that i'm afraid to get off these pills because I have been taking them for so long! 10 yrs! It makes no difference that i took them as prescribed I guess..i was told by my doctor that i would be on them the rest of my life in order to function. And that is what I'm afraid of..To stop takin them and be in horrific pain. There have been periods I didn't take them for a week or two and boy, I couldnt walk! My back was so bad..it's damaged so bad from the accident, yet I am not a canidate for surgery yet because it wouldn't help. THerefore, I am really scared but viewing this as an opportunity to get off the vicodin! I honestly think the pills have caused me to gain 40 lbs over the yrs because i used to be very fit and active until I started takin the meds..anyway..I learned from my mistake and I went to my first group therapy last week. I was kinda wierd because as I was sitting in the room with all these nurses and CRNAs and doctors, and they told me the short version of their story, well, a part of me felt like i didnt belong there...they were all IV drug abusers and got to the point of Odin before getting help...I'm not sure if i'd call myself an addict..but i guess if i'm afraid to get off the pills then i must be? As far as my court case goes...still not done..and don't know when i'll meet again with the prosecutor and my lawyer but i think the fact that i'm already in therapy and in HPRP will help my case..at least I hope it will...and to SrenitPlz08 and your comment how HR and management looked at you like a loser...i know the feeling girl...and its' hurtful and wrong or people to be so judgemental when their life is far from perfect! So next time you feel that way..remember, they are losers in their own way and reflect it upon others to make themselves feel better about their life...and they can kiss my ass!!! LOL...I havnet ment with the BON yet..feel that is comin really soon..I am still looking into getting a pro bono lawyer. And appreciate all the comments and help on here...sorry it took me so long to check back in..but i will always be checkin back in!
SrenitPlz08...i said "i know the feeling GIRL" not knowin if you were female or male..so I hope I didn't offend! LOL..and Jack..nice drawings! I draw as well..just haven't in a very long time! You are very good!
grayson wrote:SrenitPlz08...i said "i know the feeling GIRL" not knowin if you were female or male..so I hope I didn't offend! LOL..and Jack..nice drawings! I draw as well..just haven't in a very long time! You are very good!
Thanks Grayson! It's a talent I would most likely never have discovered had I not gone through all my fecal episodes in life.
Are you being managed by a pain specialist (as in board certified...not someone who decided to call themselves that to make additional $$)?
Chronic pain is best managed by a multidisciplinary team. Anesthesia, psychologist/psychiatrist, physical therapy, spiritual counselors, meditation, hypnosis, etc. Chronic pain is similar to addiction in that it affects the "whole person" (body, mind, soul). If we don't face all of these aspects we can get caught up in the downward spiral of depression and isolation. My Dad is finally dealing with childhood sexual abuse (he's going to be 84 in January). The physical "symptoms" of this unresolved abuse was seen in panic attacks and gastrointestinal symptoms (ulcer, irritable bowel, etc.) His scopes have been normal with the exception of a couple of polyps. When he finally told us about his abuse (my sister was abused by an uncle and now leads support groups), some of the things going on with him began making sense. He's been seeing a counselor and attended a 6 week program at my sisters church. I went with him and it was interesting to see the similarities in the personal struggles addicts and those who have been abused share. Dad and I have joined with three other men to form an ongoing support group. Last night we talked for almost 3 hours! Much of what I have learned over the last 19 years in recovery has been applicable in these meetings. Interestingly enough, Dad hasn't had any abdominal distress for almost 4 months. I pointed that out to him last night and you could see the light bulb go on, not only for him, but for the other gentleman. It's been a most interesting and rewarding time developing a fellowship with these men. One that will no doubt assist me in my recovery, and with the folks I meet as a peer advisor.
Keep working on your recovery. Labels don't matter. Results do. I wish you all the best. Keep us updated on your progress.
[B]You are the strongest most wonderful man!God Bless your father! And good for him for stepping up! Currently I am only seeing one doctor for my pain and the therapist I see for HPRP and Group is refering me to a doctor who will likely put me on suboxone ( the medication you spoke of above) I am afraid to take it, because I have never handled mood altering drugs well..I remember being prescribed Xanax after my accident and I took it for a few days and just hated it because I was so tired I didn't want to do anything. Anyway, we'll see what comes of it. But I found out the hard way that I should have NEVER spoke with the investigator without a lawyer present. I know I was advised on this web site not to speak with anyone else..but my loser of a lawyer told me to go ahead and talk with him and not to worry, then the investigator told me the informatin I gave him would have no bearing on my court case. He promised me it was only for the BON and they were the only people he would share my information with. That is the only reason I felt comfortable to speak with him. Well, he turned around and sent a copy of my interview to the Trooper and the prosecutor which really isn't going to help my case. So I emailed him and basically told him in a not so nice way what a hateful untrustworthy scheming man he was. HE wrote back and told me he was under no obligation to tell me the truth. I am so over trusting people of law I could puke. Anyway, I'll keep you posted and we'll see what happens now that the investigator turned out to be a disrespectful ass! Again so proud of your father (even though I never met him) And so proud of you for being so strong hearted and wonderful! [/B
Oh you were so right about not talking to the BON investigator without legal help! Actaully my "so called lawyer" was the one who told me to go ahead and talk to the investigator and it wound up hurting me more then it did help me. My advice to ANYONE out there is NEVER talk!!! NEVER talk to the police to the investigators etc..do NOT trust them..they will hurt you even if they tell you they are there to help and are so nice you find yourself trusting them..the Ass hole that questioned me was so nice and I thought he really cared with is advice and his demeanor. Turned out he LIED to me..right to my face..told me it would have NO bearing on my court case..told me he would only share the information with the BON..turned out a few wks later i got the copy of the interview in the mail from the state trooper who charged me and the prosecutor in my case..when I emailed the investigator, he told me he had no obligation to tell me the thruth! I went off on him via email..told him what a dishonest person he was and he was no better then I! I don't care what happens or if he shares my email with the BON..that was WRONG and I'm beyond angry..if the only way to keep my license is to let jerks like him degrade me and scheme to get what they want, well, they can wipe their butts with it!..I just wanted him to know what a piece of dog S#$% he really was! I will give my kids the same advice in life..DO NOT trust the police or any person of law! I learned the hard way..and my father used to be a cop..poor guy! NEVER again! Not even if the cops need my help because I witnessed a murder..NOPE..they can all go to hell!:bite me:(that is to all people in law enforcement! LOL)
whome3 wrote:grayson,
I strongly advice that you seek legal help immediately for this!!
And what ever you do, DO NOT talk to the BON investigator without legal counsel!!
I am not a lawyer, but have read a lot and helped others with questions by looking at states nursing regs. Diverting drugs for personal use and diverting for sale or distribution to others are 2 VERY different things.
personal diversion is the result of addiction, which can be treated but diverting for distribution is much worse, ( in the eyes of the law and the BON)
There is no way that you can place this act on your exhusband, abuse or not. You alone commited the act, and it was not something that you were Had to do... Just because he asked you to get him drugs does not make him the guilty one here... you could have said no.
I am worried about this for you and how this will be handled both criminally and by the BON.
grayson wrote:Oh you were so right about not talking to the BON investigator without legal help! Actaully my "so called lawyer" was the one who told me to go ahead and talk to the investigator and it wound up hurting me more then it did help me. My advice to ANYONE out there is NEVER talk!!! NEVER talk to the police to the investigators etc..do NOT trust them..they will hurt you even if they tell you they are there to help and are so nice you find yourself trusting them..the Ass hole that questioned me was so nice and I thought he really cared with is advice and his demeanor. Turned out he LIED to me..right to my face..told me it would have NO bearing on my court case..told me he would only share the information with the BON..turned out a few wks later i got the copy of the interview in the mail from the state trooper who charged me and the prosecutor in my case..when I emailed the investigator, he told me he had no obligation to tell me the thruth! I went off on him via email..told him what a dishonest person he was and he was no better then I! I don't care what happens or if he shares my email with the BON..that was WRONG and I'm beyond angry..if the only way to keep my license is to let jerks like him degrade me and scheme to get what they want, well, they can wipe their butts with it!..I just wanted him to know what a piece of dog S#$% he really was! I will give my kids the same advice in life..DO NOT trust the police or any person of law! I learned the hard way..and my father used to be a cop..poor guy! NEVER again! Not even if the cops need my help because I witnessed a murder..NOPE..they can all go to hell!:bite me:(that is to all people in law enforcement! LOL)
Greyson,
I am sorry that this has happened but in reality, this happens all the time, in both criminal cases and with the BON where unsuspecting nurses are victims of their own doing based on lack of knowledge as to the tactics used to obtain info.
Most nurses escape criminal charges but for those who don't this is a very new and scary thing. We are typically not people that discuss the things to be aware of and what to do when a cop or investigator is at the door, asking questions. In my case, I too was a fool with a police matter and was badgered into something that could have been avoided if I had said and done things differently.
As far as the BON, nurses are also unaware of how they work, and many nurses also have no idea what to expect, and are not prepared when the BON investigator shows up at your doorstep. I was lucky in that I was prepared on what to say by my counselor in treatment, and she asked that the invesigator come to the tx center, so she could be with me. In my case, I did not deny and wanted help, and it was straight forward. Not all states are as easy...
It is too bad that your lawyer was not with you when you talked to the investigator. From what you have said, he did however advise that you say that you diverted for self use, and to enter into the voluntary program,,, but sounds like you maybe did not do this at the time??
I am also thinking that since this is a criminal matter, the DA can request any info from the BON involving this, and this was not done voluntarily by the investigator...
I hope that this will help others who read this, and that the concept of NOT TALKING to anyone that is involved in legal action in ANY capacity is heard.
My main point here is for any nurse with BON involvement is that it is always wise to do research and to be aware of the potential actions from what you are being investigated for.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can, and WILL be used against you in a court of law (and by the board of nursing).
You have the right to an attorney to be present with you for any and all questioning by the board investigator(s) and by the board. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed to you for criminal cases only.
If you have your own liability insurance with a licensure defense clause, your attorney will most likely be covered. If you rely solely on your employer's liability insurance coverage, you might be in big trouble if the employer settles the case and then decides to come after you.
NEVER face the board of nursing or any other licensing board without an attorney with experience facing that licensing board (criminal defense attorneys usually have no idea what facing a board of nursing investigation is about).
NEVER, EVER believe an investigator when they tell you it will be OK, they only want to help, or none of this will be on the record.
ALWAYS hire an attorney if you want to have the best shot at keeping your license and practicing again. If you don't have the money...BORROW IT! This is not a game and it certainly can ruin your career by NOT hiring one. Facing an investigation by the board of nursing, the pharmacy board, the police, etc. is an adversarial situation. The board is not your friend and doesn't have your interests at heart. Don't talk about the incident or the investigation with anyone from work...not even your best friends, since hearsay evidence is admissible in a board investigation and hearing. Don't seek legal advice for use in your investigation from friends, colleagues, or nursing chat rooms (including this one). Just because someone else's situation was similar and everything came out alright doesn't mean yours will!
Here are the Miranda warnings that we hear so much about on "Law and Order" and other shows. It makes sense to remember them. Stick them on a business card and keep them in your wallet if it helps to remember them in the heat of battle.
You have the right to remain silent and refuse to answer questions. Do you understand?
Anything you do say may be used against you in a court of law. Do you understand?
You have the right to consult an attorney before speaking to the police and to have an attorney present during questioning now or in the future. Do you understand?
If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish. (This is only accurate for criminal cases.) Do you understand?
If you decide to answer questions now without an attorney present you will still have the right to stop answering at any time until you talk to an attorney. Do you understand?
Knowing and understanding your rights as I have explained them to you, are you willing to answer my questions without an attorney present?
Grayson,
Hello, my name is Mitch! I was reading all 4 pages of your story and I was reliving my own story in some instances. You will still have a nursing career! I too took great pride when I graduated nursing school. I was the first person to graduate high school let alone college in 3 generations! And the day I was caught diverting Vicodin from my hospital I thought I would never work again. It was the worst day of my life. That was 8 months ago. I too am involved with HPRP. What state are you in, did you mention that at all? I am in MI. As someone pointed out diverting for yourself and diverting for distribution are two VERY different things. 99% of the time if you divert for yourself no charges are even pressed and police are not involved in any way. This being your first offense and so many things going wrong with the officer that first questioned you, I hope that you find yourself a lucky girl and end up with a dismissed case. As far as the BON or the state investigator, if you are involved with HPRP, they will usually turn your case over to them to handle and monitor and as long as you comply with your monitoring agreement for the duration your licence will not be messed with. However if you get in trouble for distributing I am not sure how that will work out, but I do know that whatever happens, you will most likely not lose your licence. I have people in my HPRP group that are doing their 3rd stint in HPRP! Good for you for recognizing your issue with your pain medication. I was thinking as I was reading your posts that you had to be taking something. I just had a feeling and then a couple of posts later, you came out with that. I am new on here, but if you have any questions I will be happy to answer them. I have 8 months of HPRP and NA and recovery under my belt. It's not much but I can be of some help I am sure! Good luck to you and I hope to get an update from you soon!
Thanks for posting. I was caught this past July diverting meds for a second time. I had a period of 7.5 years between frist treatment & relapse. I was fired. Also entered treatment program and was accepted in my states monitor program. I got a new job working case management for an insurance company & my director is aware of my addiction/recovery. But... I just got a letter tonight that due to the fact that this is a second offense, the Board now wants me to willingly surrender my license for 18 months. If I do not surrender and choose to go to a hearing, I can do that. I have a call out to another RN in my continuing care that just went through this with the board, for advise & the name of her attorney.
I realize this is one of the consequences of my using. I just wish I had not been allowed into their monitor program to now be told that that is not good enough. I know I have to take one right step at a time and turn it over, but honestly I am so stunned right now, I can't think. Luckily, I do not feel like using, but have already reached out to my sponsor and continuing care group tonight.
Maybe the fact that I have been in their monitor program for over 4 months now will look in my favor. Any advise or thoughts would be appreciated.
Use this to your advantage (A) you sought treatment voluntarily
(B) you are working in a safe job away from narcs(C) your employer knows and supports you (D) you attend support groups for nurses and also 12 step groups (E) you have agreed to be monitored and tested and to follow the contract with the BON
Definitely seek legal advice from a lawyer who is familiar and has worked with your states BON
No matter what, don't use, and accept that you cannot change this. The challenges we receive don't always make sense, but there is always a lesson and room for growing and getting stronger when faced with bumps in the road
Thanks for the great advise. Fortunately, I came to the same decisions on my own this weekend. I spoke with an attorney tonight who gave me some good advise and will probably hire his counsel to guide me through this process. I know that my Higher Power is guiding me if I listen to him through my meditation & through others around me. My support system has been wonderful. I feel loved reguardless of the bad choices I've made to get me to my current situation. I will defintely use every asset I have : sponsor, meetings, tx, monitor program, my current job without drug access to my advantage. Thanks for responding. I appreciate it.
Snoopy - I've been meaning to write you a welcome to the site but have been suffering a migraine for the past several days. Migraines for people in recovery are tricky because of the fact that we can't take anything that really works for them. I am no longer being monitored and Opiets were never my problem ( I am a garden variety alcoholic) but why risk it - Still if this keeps up I may have to seek help from the doctor soon.
Sounds like you are doing all the right things. Stay focussed on your program and trust in your Higher Power. I will write more when I feel better.
grayson wrote:Gosh thank you so much for all of the information! I really didn't know it was that involved! I mean, I know they take it seriously, but honestly I didn't figure they would screw you over if you were admitting you needed help and seeking it openly! WOW...again i just feel like a piece of S#&%.. like everyone else is so perfect they never make mistakes! That is just how i feel lately..like i'm crap! Everyone else is better.....well, i made a mistake..and it may have been a HUGE mistake..but i made it and I can't go back..so i'll have to face the music..if i decide i want to go through with it..i just don't want to regret it years from now ya know..if i decided not to go through with it and then regretted that...i worked so hard for my license in the first place..worked so hard in school as a single mom...that is the only reason i'll most likely go through with it..even if i don't practice for the rest of my life, i'll at least get through this. I'll check out those sights and see what i can find out as far as lawyers go..maybe i can find one that will except payments? I don't know...but i really appreciate your advice!!! I'll use it! What about getting a license in another state? I know every state is different, but what if you do all that is asked of you by the BON of the original state, and get through it all, and your re-licensed and working. Does it stay on your backround if you apply in another state? Forever? Or are all states different in that as well? I just need to know because if this is somthing I am going to have to face for the rest of my life, at least the rest of my career, then I'm pretty confident in saying I won't stick with this as a career. It's one thing to suffer while you go through it and make yourself better. It's enough that I'll never forget what I did and it will be in my heart and my memory forever...but it's another to be haunted by it for the rest of your life in every job you take...or at least reminded of it..I know this will stick with me for the rest of my life in mind and heart, but i don't need to be reminded of it everytime I start a new job, or relocate, or move on..i just can't do that. I won't do that..Life is too short..i realize that now..and I want to move on one day..push it in the back of my head and move on..i can't do that if i am being judged by every BON in every state, and every job i take...Let me know if you have any idea about that. I appreciate it! Oh and to Whone3..thanks to you as well..i really appreciate your advie and NEED it!!
Ya know, I felt the same as you when I got arrested forobtaining narcotics by fraud...like a piece of crap...everyone else was perfect...my life was screwed up beyond repair..even though it's been 4 years and Im still not back where I should be, I did get my license back after it was revoked, and I have realized that everyone makes mistakes....more than we know...the only difference between them and us is we got caught. Dont let anyone make you feel like you are less because of one "oh sh@t moment". You seem to have done everything else great thus far. One mistake does not define who you are. Hang in there. Ill pray for you, and I need your prayers too. Im having a hard time finding a job now, and Im a single mother.
Also keep in mind, there is a disease process going on here. Something I try to remind every nurse I speak to...you are not a bad person trying to become good, you have a chronic, progressive, potentially fatal disease and you are trying to get well. This disease is genetically based and alter the brain. The areas of the brain involved include reflexes, survival, motivation, decision making, learning, and pleasure. These areas are significantly altered, and these alterations are responsible for the changes in mood and behavior.
Also, we lose our ability to learn from our mistakes when under the influence, and we also lose our social skills. So instead of recognizing why we are angry or becoming depressed, and making amends or sitting down and having a conversation that can strengthen relationships, we feel stressed/angry/moody/ whatever, and know that taking our drug of choice will "medicate" those feelings away. This means we DON'T build relationships and things keep getting worse.
This is a complex bio-psycho-social-spiritual disease that requires a great deal of work in all those areas. AND, with our brain chemistry and structures so messed up, it makes all of this so difficult to deal with, especially early on. This is why abstinence is so important. The longer you're abstinent, the more your brain can recuperate. It takes 18 - 24 months for the brain to recuperate to it's fullest extent, with the most significant recuperation taking place in the first 90 - 180 days of abstinence (amazing how AA figured that out before we had MRIs and PET scans). Continuing to use, even if it's only occasionally, impedes the healing process. Also, having co-occurring disorders like significant depression, bipolar disorder, chronic pain, etc. diagnosed and effectively managed is so important.
This is more than just making some "bad decisions". It's a serious life-long battle. That's why it is so important to take things one day at a time, read and study about the disease, attend your support groups, see your therapist (if you have one), journal, stay in contact with your sponsors (you can have more than one!), read your daily meditations, pray and meditate to stay in contact with your Higher Power (whoever or whatever that might be), and keep your life as simple as possible (meaning no crazy work schedules, not running the kids to 75 different activities every week, etc., etc.)
Recovery...prolonged recovery is possible, but it doesn't "just happen". It's a conscious, purposeful act that takes place everyday.
