Reply With QuoteSo exactly how do I respond to an article I have not read? I would love to know what the oklahoma letter said.
I found your post here interesting and would like to clarify it. Your statement lists all levels of nusring and then you follow it with they eat their young. Did you mean all levels eat their young. If you meant BS only I take offense to that. Many ADN's have an attitude also. I believe many of the attitudes are personal and shouldn't be put on all nurses.
I disagree with that. I think nurses are very busy and it is a stressful job. Having new people adds to that stress. It isn't anyone's fault . It just is. I have seen many new grads try to tell a seasoned nurse she was wrong. Now maybe she is wrong, things change, but the attitude on both sides of the spectrum needs to be taken into account.
WR,,,
I just hate labeling all nurses as eating their young. I don't think it foster's anything. We have defined a so-called problem..Let's work to fix it.
So exactly how do I respond to an article I have not read? I would love to know what the oklahoma letter said.
I am an LPN and studied anatomy and physiology and microbiology among other courses. I do see the amount of schooling as being the difference between RN's and LPN's yet I do not agree with the vocational aspect you mentioned. I am a licensed Practical Nurse and not a vocational nurse. Perhaps the programs are different.
LPN's are expected to function as RN's. I have done this my entire career which spans 30 years. I hear constant complaints about the nursing shortage here in new hampshire the funny thing is, or not so funny I should say, is that LPN's are being phased out of the work force. I am employed by an agency now which I thought I would never do. In the old days the agencies were beginning and were believed to take work from other nurses. At that time I worked for one of the most prstigous hospitals in the world. Today in the state of new hampshire where the nursing shortage is so great I cannot work in a hospital. Most physician offices here are affiliated with hspitals also therefore a job in those offices is difficult to get. The MD offices hire mostly med. assistants and an RN or sometimes an LPN in her place or in addition to an RN and the hospitals here hire all RN's and LNA's, or licensed nursing assistants. Insurance has played a big part in this iin my State anyway. So the secret here appears to be that there is a shortage of nurses because RN's are only hired now and as in the time when LPN's first began during the war, that creates a shortage...it is due to cutting cost and ultimately quality of care. Please respond. I am very angered by all of this.
I AGREE THAT LPNS WITH EXPERIENCE SHOULD NOT SIT FOR RN STATE BOARD EXAMS WITHOUT FURTHER EDUCATION. I WAS AN LPN FOR 13 YRS BEFORE BECOMING AN RN AND THOUGH MY CLINICAL SKILLS, KNOWLEDGE BASE AND EXPERIENCE WAS QUITE IMPRESSIVE, I DID NOT LEARN THE THEORY BEHIND THE DISEASE PROCESS IN DEPTH UNTIL I WENT BACK TO DIPLOMA SCHOOL. YES, I HAD AN ADVANTAGE OVER MOST OF MY CLASSMATES AND I USED THAT TO HELP THEM AS WELL AS MYSELF ALONG THE WAY BUT WHEN I GRADUATED I WENT TO CRITICAL CARE ICU 3 MONTHS AFTER WORKING IN A STEP DOWN UNIT AND THE DIFFERENCE WAS OVERWHELMING. I WAS PREPARED BECAUSE I HAD BEEN GIVEN A DIFFERENT IN DEPTH KNOWLEDGE BASE THAT ENABLED ME TO BE A CLASS A NURSE. CRITICAL THINKING IS A MUST AND THE ABILITY TO RECOGNIZE SUTTLE CHANGES IN A CRITICALLY ILL PATIENT COMES NOT ONLY BY EXPERIENCE BUT WITH MANY HOURS OF PATHOPHYSIOLOGY THAT WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN GIVEN IN ANY LPN SCHOOL. UNFORUNATELY TODAY, I SEE MANY RN GRADUATES THAT COME FROM VARIOUS LEVELS OF RN PROGRAMS THAT COME OUT OF SCHOOL WITH SUCH A BLANK LOOK ON THEIR FACE, EVEN YRS DOWN THE ROAD, THAT MAKES YOU WONDER WHAT IN THE WORLD THEY ARE BEING TAUGHT THESE DAYS AS WELL!
The LPN and RN both work towards the same goal, which is to educate, care for, and assist people who are unable to do so for themselves. The difference however (besides pay) is the LPN/LVN works under the supervision of a RN. LPNs may give medications, collect data (such as vital signs, height, weight, and other measurements), teach patients and their family members, and work in collaboration with a Registered nurse to plan care for and assess patients. The role of the RN includes all of the above mentioned, but includes more of a leadership/critical thinking role in that RNs are also responsible for doing an initial assessment of the patient, intiating a care plan, delegating tasks to unlicensed personel (such as nursing assistants/ aides), and making critical decisions about the care of the patient. With that being said, you're probably saying, "but yeah, What is the big difference???" I think the bigest difference is the advantage that the RN has. A registered nurse is qualified to work in just about every setting imaginable, form critical care (ICU, ER, OR, etc.) Medical/Surgical, orthopaedics, Labor and Delivery, Nursery, pediatrics, schools, where ever! The LPN on the other hand, is a bit limited as to where they can work . Most LPNs get jobs working in Med/Surg units, nursing homes, or other settings where the patients tend (now i did say "tend") to be more on the stable side, meaning they're not about to drop dead unexpectedly any time soon. So, for you guys thinking about entering the nursing profession, I would say it would be great if you became an LPN, but to really be able to dig in and get a bit dirty, seriously think about continuing your education further and becoming an RN, and don't just stop there with an associates degree or diploma... keep going, finish your Bachelor's,Master's,or even PhD, it can only open more opportunity for you!
I couldn't of said it better!! As an LPN who is going for RN, I feel as you do. I also started out as a CNA then went for OR Tech and stayed with that for over 10 yrs. It wasn't until 2000, that I was finally able to go back to school for nursing.
We are all nurses, that is what needs to be recognized by all nurses. We can go on and on about who has a higher education, but first and foremost, a nurse is a nurse, no matter what initials are behind their name.
again, great post!
JUDE
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As you know this discussion has been going on from many years and will continue for many more. From a person who has been an aide, LPN and now and RN, I feel that a LPN is a very important member to the team. I have worked with and depended on may LPN who knew more about hands on clinical care then I did when I first became a RN. I am like you I do wish we could all work together and remember that our gaol is to provide the best possible care to our patients and that every member of the team is important. I have worked as a LPN for many years and have worked with the RN who felt that her knowledge was superior to mine and talked down to me like I was in kindergarten, and then I have worked with LPN's who did not mind teaching me things that we might of only discussed in RN school.. I vowed that when I got out of RN school that I would not become the nurse who talked down to LPN's because there knowledge is valuable and I appreciate them..
But of course I am a RN with and Associates Degree and you know that the RN's with the higher degrees BS, etc, don't really think we are full blown nurses either. ANd have been trying to get us reclassified also.
But you know what, I AM a NURSE, a REAL NURSE, and I give my patients the best of care everyday, I still attend inservices for additional training (love the ones on-line, especially the free ones) and you know what I still care about what I am doing and what my staff thinks..
Thanks for listening...
<img src="http://www.ultimatenurse.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ::nurse:: ::nurse::
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I don't think she meant that all nurses "eat their young" from the way I read it, but there are some nurses in general that "forget where they come from" and think everybody is below them. I have seen some folks move from a nursing assistant position and once they graduate, will literally hold their nose up in the air at you. I am an LPN now but will graduate from the ADN program in May, Lord willing. I think I'm the same all the time and make sure not to treat anyone that has less education than me any different. I think of it this way, to be a nurse (a good nurse) you need compassion and caring and that involves more than just your patients. If you treat the people you work with (whether it be fellow nurses, aides, or students) then I think it could make a statement about how your patients are being treated. We do need to all work together as a team whether we have a higher degree than somebody else. After all, we don't carry our diplomas around our neck to work everyday.
In doing clinicals I found a lot of the time the same nurses who complained of the doctors being arrogant and thinking they are better than everyone else where many of the same nurses who had that very same attitude towards nurses with less education or experience than them, and student nurses. Insecurity I guess...
Ahem...First of all, SaraHD, why are you shouting? Second of all, I'd like to make a comment about a few things in your post. Your comment about you having an impressive knowledge base could have fooled me. I have always held the impression that as a nurse (any classification) should be curious enough about their position to "study up" on their field. I had absolutely no knowledge base when I began nursing school, yet I was curious enough about entities to follow up on them on my own time. Self education is key to being a "class A" nurse.
Critical Thinking is a must in any position! What you've posted leads me to think that only RN's are capable of critical thinking. I expect my entire team to have critical thinking skills, down to the janitor, it's that important.
"pathophysiology
noun
changes caused by disease: the disturbance of function that a disease causes in an organ, as distinct from any changes in structure that might be caused" /encarta online
I took the liberty to look up pathophysiology because you stated that it would have never been given in any LPN school. I beg to differ with that statement because physiology/anatomy and nursing diagnostics are both courses that are offered in LPN school. These are the building blocks. I believe that it is up to the nurse as an individual to further that education on their own and through career experiences. Meaning, while you're learning to hone your pathophysiology skills in a crammed up course over four years, someone with a 1 or 2 year practical nursing degree is on the job making a difference AND learning how to do that.
We've all experienced the "text book" nurse along the way, they could tell you every etiology known to man, yet when it comes down to bedside manner, they have the skills of a wet mop. Both skills are necessary in my opinion. Whether you're a BSN or an LPN and believe me, I've seen those blank faces too. I've seen every position in the health industry show examples of "green disease". It's that moment of recognition when you realize that you're holding your degree in one hand and a person's life in the other and you don't have the foggiest notion as to what to do. Schools give you the information necessary for you to embark upon a career, it's completely up to the individual as to how they process and fine tune that information.
I've been an LPN for 18 years now and I have no desire to have RN behind my name. I have yet to actually meet an RN that impresses me so much that it kicks in the "I want to be like her" syndrome.
Somewhere down the road, today's RN (not all, but a great number)get pushed behind a desk and become a part of the administration. I do respect their position, however, I very much dislike the "holier than thou" attitude that quite often accompanies it. Many of the RN's that I have experienced working with do look down their noses at someone with a 1 or 2 year degree. I've found that some RN's that used to be LPN's often forget their roots and suddenly become all that they have despised before becoming registered.
There are nurses that I know who have spent four years in college and look completely incompetent in the job field. There are nurses that I know who have spent 1 year in college whose skill and knowledge could wipe up the floor with those four year degree nurses. So do I think that LPN's should be allowed to sit on the registry board. Indeed I do. I think that after a certain amount of time and experience, they should at least have a shot at it. Perhaps though an even better choice would be to make no classification in nursing and just go back to being nurses. Plain and simple. It's not about the initials behind your name, it's what's in your heart and your head that qualifies someone in my book.
Renee Brinkley LPN
oh and with that impressive knowledge base that you have, I suggest you grab the dictionary honey, you're spelling skills need a bit polished, suttle? SUBTLE.
ps. I agree with whomever posted that LPN's do work in the capacity of an RN, I've been there many times. I've also gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to hospital work. The RN wins over the LPN, not because they are more capable, but because they are legally able to work in both capacities, administrative and caregivers. The hospital trend here in Indiana is hire LPN's to work in the capcity of the nursing assitant, which in turn, edges out those positions. That's the premise behind the 2 for 1 deal. <---ask me about that and I'll surely explain.
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