I created this forum this evening after reading the editors response in the "Oklahoma Nurse", the official newsletter of the Oklahoma Nurses Association, to a letter to the editor from an LPN.
I may print the response but I'm currently debating it.
I recently ran a poll of nurses and their opinions of LPN to RN bridge programs. There were some very heated responses. I also published a couple of articles in one of my newsletters.
Before I post these, I'd really like to hear from some of our forum members...
I have been asked by numerous LPNs about their professional development and opportunities. Currently, there are no programs, at least that I have found, that offer senior or seasoned LPNs to challenge the boards in the states where they live. That is to say, if an LPN has at least 10 or more years experience, they could sit for the boards to obtain RN licensure without additional
class time.
The issue with LPNs transitioning to RN is as much about professional role, theory, philosphical issues as it is about "nuts and bolts" med-surg or specialty area content. LPN education and function, even after many years experience, is a restricted practice, as defined by law in state nurse practice acts.
The LPN by training and, again, scope of practice as defined by the law, is a technical/vocational practice, very different in role and philosophy than a professional nursing role, which I think is why you will not find any state that will allow an experienced LPN to take RN boards.
While we share a common set on knowledge, there are also critical differences. In upcoming issues of The No FLUFF-Zone, I will be discussing this heated and much debated topic.
As you know this discussion has been going on from many years and will continue for many more. From a person who has been an aide, LPN and now and RN, I feel that a LPN is a very important member to the team. I have worked with and depended on may LPN who knew more about hands on clinical care then I did when I first became a RN. I am like you I do wish we could all work together and remember that our gaol is to provide the best possible care to our patients and that every member of the team is important. I have worked as a LPN for many years and have worked with the RN who felt that her knowledge was superior to mine and talked down to me like I was in kindergarten, and then I have worked with LPN's who did not mind teaching me things that we might of only discussed in RN school.. I vowed that when I got out of RN school that I would not become the nurse who talked down to LPN's because there knowledge is valuable and I appreciate them..
But of course I am a RN with and Associates Degree and you know that the RN's with the higher degrees BS, etc, don't really think we are full blown nurses either. ANd have been trying to get us reclassified also.
But you know what, I AM a NURSE, a REAL NURSE, and I give my patients the best of care everyday, I still attend inservices for additional training (love the ones on-line, especially the free ones) and you know what I still care about what I am doing and what my staff thinks..
I hate that nurses get that superiority attitude. Many times it is the same nurses who complain about the doctors having that "attitude", when they themselves do the same thing to their own kind.
In my mind, that is one of the biggest issues we face as "NURSES".
I am just a student thinking of changing to nursing as my focus for school. I am wondering what the difference between RN and LPN is and how to obtain both or either. Also, I wondered if anyone could tell me what is required for each as far as school credits go and what the exact definition of each is.
I am an RN, and have never been an LPN. For the choice of which ... you only need look at the difference in pay rate. I have worked with many LPNs that I would prefer above some RNs that I have worked with. As it is with almost everything level of committment and ability to work with others as equals is the important part. I have seen many many nurses LPNs, RNs with ADNs, and RNs with BSs ... they seem to eat their young and I think this is totally disgusting and quite unecessary complelty. When I was a student RN, I was treated horrible by the RNs currently working at my clinical setting. It was then that I vowed to NEVER EVER treat anyone as a second class citizen or dummy ever!!! I have held true to this vow and will continue to ... whether that person be student, LPN, RN, or DOC ... I mean who cares? We are all people with feelings, goals, and hopefully good values. But, since I have seen way too many LPNs working harder and easier to work with than some RNs I say to them all ...... get your RN and get paid more for what you do. So, the choice of whether to go LPN or straight to RN ..... go straight to RN.
I have always been told that the difference in schooling is that RNs are taught the background physiology, the whys and wherefores of a disease process, while the LPN is educated on the clinical side of what to do only. Remember I said, this is what I have always been told. Therefore it will not be possible to challenge the RN testing as an LPN. I went to RN school in Mobile, Alabama and in my final year there were just as many LPNS doing the fast track to RN. They only had to go for the one year ..... so, it isn't that time consuming to do it.
Just my opinion,
Lynn
You are right, I have worked with LPN's that are great, I taught LPN school for 10 years and feel that there are LPN's that have excellent qualities and abilities. We are all nurses and should take care of each other. If we don't stand up for each other, no one else will. Nursing is a great profession, we just need to work together to make it better
Just curious from someone who has been an LPN and an RN, how much difference is there between the jobs (besides pay) as far as responsibilities, stress, etc.?
I am an RN with a BSN. I try very hard not to talk down to anyone. I have worked with excellent nurses who had their LPN, RN Diploma, RN Associates, and RN BSN & higher. I have also worked with nurses with the above classifications who were dangerous and unsafe. My concern with LPN nurses is that LPN's in Oklahoma are expected to function as RN's. They take the same loads and deal with most of the same responsibilities (at least in the hospitals I've worked at). BUT, they don't get the same pay. The training is a lot different. From what I've seen, most experienced LPN's handle the loads but start to feel bitter about the pay scale difference. I've seen new LPN's struggle to handle the loads, the clinical skills are there but they seem to struggle more with a lot of the paperwork, legal issues and critical thinking. Whereas, the new RN's don't have as many problems with the paperwork, legal issues & critical thinking but lack the clinical skills. What's the answer? I don't know. But at my organization we try to play to each nurse's strengths and weaknesses when they are on orientation, no matter what the title. The fact of the matter is, we need nurses. So we need to all pull together to get our new nurses LPN's & RN's competent to provide safe quality patient care.
I found your post here interesting and would like to clarify it. Your statement lists all levels of nusring and then you follow it with they eat their young. Did you mean all levels eat their young. If you meant BS only I take offense to that. Many ADN's have an attitude also. I believe many of the attitudes are personal and shouldn't be put on all nurses.
I disagree with that. I think nurses are very busy and it is a stressful job. Having new people adds to that stress. It isn't anyone's fault . It just is. I have seen many new grads try to tell a seasoned nurse she was wrong. Now maybe she is wrong, things change, but the attitude on both sides of the spectrum needs to be taken into account.
WR,,,
I just hate labeling all nurses as eating their young. I don't think it foster's anything. We have defined a so-called problem..Let's work to fix it.
I am an LPN and studied anatomy and physiology and microbiology among other courses. I do see the amount of schooling as being the difference between RN's and LPN's yet I do not agree with the vocational aspect you mentioned. I am a licensed Practical Nurse and not a vocational nurse. Perhaps the programs are different.
LPN's are expected to function as RN's. I have done this my entire career which spans 30 years. I hear constant complaints about the nursing shortage here in new hampshire the funny thing is, or not so funny I should say, is that LPN's are being phased out of the work force. I am employed by an agency now which I thought I would never do. In the old days the agencies were beginning and were believed to take work from other nurses. At that time I worked for one of the most prstigous hospitals in the world. Today in the state of new hampshire where the nursing shortage is so great I cannot work in a hospital. Most physician offices here are affiliated with hspitals also therefore a job in those offices is difficult to get. The MD offices hire mostly med. assistants and an RN or sometimes an LPN in her place or in addition to an RN and the hospitals here hire all RN's and LNA's, or licensed nursing assistants. Insurance has played a big part in this iin my State anyway. So the secret here appears to be that there is a shortage of nurses because RN's are only hired now and as in the time when LPN's first began during the war, that creates a shortage...it is due to cutting cost and ultimately quality of care. Please respond. I am very angered by all of this.
I AGREE THAT LPNS WITH EXPERIENCE SHOULD NOT SIT FOR RN STATE BOARD EXAMS WITHOUT FURTHER EDUCATION. I WAS AN LPN FOR 13 YRS BEFORE BECOMING AN RN AND THOUGH MY CLINICAL SKILLS, KNOWLEDGE BASE AND EXPERIENCE WAS QUITE IMPRESSIVE, I DID NOT LEARN THE THEORY BEHIND THE DISEASE PROCESS IN DEPTH UNTIL I WENT BACK TO DIPLOMA SCHOOL. YES, I HAD AN ADVANTAGE OVER MOST OF MY CLASSMATES AND I USED THAT TO HELP THEM AS WELL AS MYSELF ALONG THE WAY BUT WHEN I GRADUATED I WENT TO CRITICAL CARE ICU 3 MONTHS AFTER WORKING IN A STEP DOWN UNIT AND THE DIFFERENCE WAS OVERWHELMING. I WAS PREPARED BECAUSE I HAD BEEN GIVEN A DIFFERENT IN DEPTH KNOWLEDGE BASE THAT ENABLED ME TO BE A CLASS A NURSE. CRITICAL THINKING IS A MUST AND THE ABILITY TO RECOGNIZE SUTTLE CHANGES IN A CRITICALLY ILL PATIENT COMES NOT ONLY BY EXPERIENCE BUT WITH MANY HOURS OF PATHOPHYSIOLOGY THAT WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN GIVEN IN ANY LPN SCHOOL. UNFORUNATELY TODAY, I SEE MANY RN GRADUATES THAT COME FROM VARIOUS LEVELS OF RN PROGRAMS THAT COME OUT OF SCHOOL WITH SUCH A BLANK LOOK ON THEIR FACE, EVEN YRS DOWN THE ROAD, THAT MAKES YOU WONDER WHAT IN THE WORLD THEY ARE BEING TAUGHT THESE DAYS AS WELL!
The LPN and RN both work towards the same goal, which is to educate, care for, and assist people who are unable to do so for themselves. The difference however (besides pay) is the LPN/LVN works under the supervision of a RN. LPNs may give medications, collect data (such as vital signs, height, weight, and other measurements), teach patients and their family members, and work in collaboration with a Registered nurse to plan care for and assess patients. The role of the RN includes all of the above mentioned, but includes more of a leadership/critical thinking role in that RNs are also responsible for doing an initial assessment of the patient, intiating a care plan, delegating tasks to unlicensed personel (such as nursing assistants/ aides), and making critical decisions about the care of the patient. With that being said, you're probably saying, "but yeah, What is the big difference???" I think the bigest difference is the advantage that the RN has. A registered nurse is qualified to work in just about every setting imaginable, form critical care (ICU, ER, OR, etc.) Medical/Surgical, orthopaedics, Labor and Delivery, Nursery, pediatrics, schools, where ever! The LPN on the other hand, is a bit limited as to where they can work . Most LPNs get jobs working in Med/Surg units, nursing homes, or other settings where the patients tend (now i did say "tend") to be more on the stable side, meaning they're not about to drop dead unexpectedly any time soon. So, for you guys thinking about entering the nursing profession, I would say it would be great if you became an LPN, but to really be able to dig in and get a bit dirty, seriously think about continuing your education further and becoming an RN, and don't just stop there with an associates degree or diploma... keep going, finish your Bachelor's,Master's,or even PhD, it can only open more opportunity for you!
I couldn't of said it better!! As an LPN who is going for RN, I feel as you do. I also started out as a CNA then went for OR Tech and stayed with that for over 10 yrs. It wasn't until 2000, that I was finally able to go back to school for nursing.
We are all nurses, that is what needs to be recognized by all nurses. We can go on and on about who has a higher education, but first and foremost, a nurse is a nurse, no matter what initials are behind their name.
again, great post!
JUDE
[ QUOTE ]
As you know this discussion has been going on from many years and will continue for many more. From a person who has been an aide, LPN and now and RN, I feel that a LPN is a very important member to the team. I have worked with and depended on may LPN who knew more about hands on clinical care then I did when I first became a RN. I am like you I do wish we could all work together and remember that our gaol is to provide the best possible care to our patients and that every member of the team is important. I have worked as a LPN for many years and have worked with the RN who felt that her knowledge was superior to mine and talked down to me like I was in kindergarten, and then I have worked with LPN's who did not mind teaching me things that we might of only discussed in RN school.. I vowed that when I got out of RN school that I would not become the nurse who talked down to LPN's because there knowledge is valuable and I appreciate them..
But of course I am a RN with and Associates Degree and you know that the RN's with the higher degrees BS, etc, don't really think we are full blown nurses either. ANd have been trying to get us reclassified also.
But you know what, I AM a NURSE, a REAL NURSE, and I give my patients the best of care everyday, I still attend inservices for additional training (love the ones on-line, especially the free ones) and you know what I still care about what I am doing and what my staff thinks..
Thanks for listening...
<img src="http://www.ultimatenurse.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ::nurse:: ::nurse::
I don't think she meant that all nurses "eat their young" from the way I read it, but there are some nurses in general that "forget where they come from" and think everybody is below them. I have seen some folks move from a nursing assistant position and once they graduate, will literally hold their nose up in the air at you. I am an LPN now but will graduate from the ADN program in May, Lord willing. I think I'm the same all the time and make sure not to treat anyone that has less education than me any different. I think of it this way, to be a nurse (a good nurse) you need compassion and caring and that involves more than just your patients. If you treat the people you work with (whether it be fellow nurses, aides, or students) then I think it could make a statement about how your patients are being treated. We do need to all work together as a team whether we have a higher degree than somebody else. After all, we don't carry our diplomas around our neck to work everyday.
In doing clinicals I found a lot of the time the same nurses who complained of the doctors being arrogant and thinking they are better than everyone else where many of the same nurses who had that very same attitude towards nurses with less education or experience than them, and student nurses. Insecurity I guess...
Ahem...First of all, SaraHD, why are you shouting? Second of all, I'd like to make a comment about a few things in your post. Your comment about you having an impressive knowledge base could have fooled me. I have always held the impression that as a nurse (any classification) should be curious enough about their position to "study up" on their field. I had absolutely no knowledge base when I began nursing school, yet I was curious enough about entities to follow up on them on my own time. Self education is key to being a "class A" nurse.
Critical Thinking is a must in any position! What you've posted leads me to think that only RN's are capable of critical thinking. I expect my entire team to have critical thinking skills, down to the janitor, it's that important.
"pathophysiology
noun
changes caused by disease: the disturbance of function that a disease causes in an organ, as distinct from any changes in structure that might be caused" /encarta online
I took the liberty to look up pathophysiology because you stated that it would have never been given in any LPN school. I beg to differ with that statement because physiology/anatomy and nursing diagnostics are both courses that are offered in LPN school. These are the building blocks. I believe that it is up to the nurse as an individual to further that education on their own and through career experiences. Meaning, while you're learning to hone your pathophysiology skills in a crammed up course over four years, someone with a 1 or 2 year practical nursing degree is on the job making a difference AND learning how to do that.
We've all experienced the "text book" nurse along the way, they could tell you every etiology known to man, yet when it comes down to bedside manner, they have the skills of a wet mop. Both skills are necessary in my opinion. Whether you're a BSN or an LPN and believe me, I've seen those blank faces too. I've seen every position in the health industry show examples of "green disease". It's that moment of recognition when you realize that you're holding your degree in one hand and a person's life in the other and you don't have the foggiest notion as to what to do. Schools give you the information necessary for you to embark upon a career, it's completely up to the individual as to how they process and fine tune that information.
I've been an LPN for 18 years now and I have no desire to have RN behind my name. I have yet to actually meet an RN that impresses me so much that it kicks in the "I want to be like her" syndrome.
Somewhere down the road, today's RN (not all, but a great number)get pushed behind a desk and become a part of the administration. I do respect their position, however, I very much dislike the "holier than thou" attitude that quite often accompanies it. Many of the RN's that I have experienced working with do look down their noses at someone with a 1 or 2 year degree. I've found that some RN's that used to be LPN's often forget their roots and suddenly become all that they have despised before becoming registered.
There are nurses that I know who have spent four years in college and look completely incompetent in the job field. There are nurses that I know who have spent 1 year in college whose skill and knowledge could wipe up the floor with those four year degree nurses. So do I think that LPN's should be allowed to sit on the registry board. Indeed I do. I think that after a certain amount of time and experience, they should at least have a shot at it. Perhaps though an even better choice would be to make no classification in nursing and just go back to being nurses. Plain and simple. It's not about the initials behind your name, it's what's in your heart and your head that qualifies someone in my book.
Renee Brinkley LPN
oh and with that impressive knowledge base that you have, I suggest you grab the dictionary honey, you're spelling skills need a bit polished, suttle? SUBTLE.
ps. I agree with whomever posted that LPN's do work in the capacity of an RN, I've been there many times. I've also gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to hospital work. The RN wins over the LPN, not because they are more capable, but because they are legally able to work in both capacities, administrative and caregivers. The hospital trend here in Indiana is hire LPN's to work in the capcity of the nursing assitant, which in turn, edges out those positions. That's the premise behind the 2 for 1 deal. <---ask me about that and I'll surely explain.
I am an LPN working towards my Associates degree in nursing and also starting my BSN. I have done the intership in the hospital and in long term care facilities. I have learned in my experience that it's not that all nurses look down on LPN's or ADN's. It's based on a person's personal feelings. I have been treated great and wonderful by all types of nurses and I have been treated bad by all types. I think that if an LPN can sit down and pass RN boards than let them take it. I would also like to read the article mentioned above
The answer is a nursing delivery system that we used in the late 70s and early 80s, it's called team nursing. Primary nursing is likely the dumbest, and greatest failure in the history of nursing. Here it is more then 20 years later, people still have trouble identifying the problem. But not the schools, they still train and produce nurses at various levels with a concept that RNs, LPNS, and CNAs or techs, work together to provide for the needs of the patient. I could write a doctoral thesis on this subject, but I'll leave it at that for now. Good for you guys, work together, let each nurse work their strengths. Maybe you can convince the powers that be you'd like to work as a team. You'll have more patients, but what you do for the patient will be more focused!
I once worked as a charge nurse in a cardiovascular ICU unit and had the priviledge of working patient care alongside an LPN with 18 years experience in ICU. I'd been recruited by the unit's director from being a charge nurse in NICU and at the time had had no experience with adult patients since nursing school.
To my credit I'm happy to say that I had the good sense to transition into the unit with a watch, listen, and learn attitude and remain grateful to this day for that LPN's experience, knowledge, and willingness to share with me from her wealth of knowledge. At that time it was primary care nursing and the state where I was working then allowed LPN's to work in critical care. The LPN was actually allowed to do most of her own patient care with me only serving to "supervise" as needed, to hang blood etc...
Unfortunately I was still there when the state nursing board changed the rules and stopped allowing LPN's to work in critical care areas at all. What a waste! But- I disgress. Here are some things I learned about LPN's that I believe are worth passing along:
An experienced LPN is the backbone of your nursing team. Compare an LPN to a sergeant in the military- the sergeant is the glue that holds the force together and sees to it that the mission gets accomplished according to orders.
The experienced LPN, like that military sergeant, has a thing or two to teach new RN's (like new 2nd Lts), and a wise RN listens, respects, learns, and treats the LPN's with great respect and dignity- while keeping perspective of the differences in scope of practice, duty, responsibility and accountability of each other's position.
Heed the advise of your LPN when you are lucky enough to have experienced LPNs, value and respect them, treat them well, but always do YOUR job as an RN to the best of your ability and bear in mind your responsibility to your LPN's as well- the responsibility to assign them fair patient loads, to provide them adequate supportive staff (CNA's etc), to DO your job of making patient care plans, assessing each patient, taking responsibility for all patients under their care, and seeing that things flow smoothly for all.
The RN role is comparable to the officer's role in the military- to ensure safe care of patients, to organize and direct staffing, work flow, procedures, to interact with physicians and manage aspects of patient care and organizational operation, while your LPN's role is to be your eyes, ears, hands, and advisor in regards to patient status, changes, areas where help is needed etc...
Experienced LPN's are treasures. They are paraprofessionals and a play a vital role in the health delivery team. They are not RN's however and their role and scope of duties should not be confused with that of RN's.
In respecting each other's roles and valuing and respecting the function each plays in accomplishing the mission everyone wins.
Well Stated Medi! I hope LPNs and LVNs read your post and know that there are plenty of RNs who respect them and their knowledge base. I have worked with LPNs who I would rather care for me than some RN's. Again, well stated!
I agree with you. But I have had other nurses say to me even before I have opened my mouth.. So you are an RN. I suppose you have a BSN. Now that is biased from the get go. They know absolutely nothing about me. They are eating the old if you would.. I just have heard that phrase ad nauseaum and am tired of it..I believe it is fostered in nursing school.. I heard it in 1979 in Sanford NC in LPN school, I heard it in an ADN program in Maine and I heard it in my BSN program in Maine again..I remember students asking in class what does that mean "eating the young" and it was explained to us that older nurses weren't nice to new grads.. This explaination was given to us by our professors.
I am currently a student in a BSN program at the University of Central Florida; I am also a CNA. I believe that every part of the medical team is important and that everyone has their place. Whether their education is 16 wks, 2 years, 4 years, or 8 years; each person is a valuable asset to the medical team.
The program that I am in is a community based nursing program. Our directors have even told us that right out of school, the 2-year nurse will have more beside training than we will, yet in 6 months, our experience will catch up to those 2-year nurses. Most of the nurses I work with are either 2-year nurses, or certificate nurses (from back in the day) and those certificate nurses are absolutely genius and I would never think them anything less that a Registered Nurse.
Designations are not important… A nurse is a nurse and we are here to provide care for our clients no matter what our education level. The few differences that I have even noticed are that the BS degreed nurses are trained to be unit managers and are prepared to continue on to practitioner school here in Fl. A 2-year nurse must get the BS before they can go to those areas. Our education is based on a lot of the theory and, at least here, the AS programs are not. Other than that and a tiny little pay difference right out of school, there is really no big difference. I am happy to work with all personel, CNAs, LPNs, RNs, even MDs, all serve a crucial role in the medical practice!!
Kudos for you Medi!!!...I also wish this nonsense of who's a real nurse would go away...I am 49 years old and will be starting my LVN program this Fall. This is a second career for me and I'm looking forward to it. I have raised my family by being in the corporate world. Now, that they are adults and I have been downsized I decided to follow my dreams by becoming a nurse. By the way people an ill patient does not look at a name tag to see who has rank! What they want and deserve is to be taken care of by a nurse in their scope of practice. I will be proud to become an LVN in 2005.
I feel angry about this too, but what really surprises me is the way LPN are treated in the Northern States versus the Southern States. My husband is in the military and we move around alot. I'm 25 and I'm from Alabama I have been an LPN for 5 years. I currently live in Maryland and upon arriving here I was shocked at how alot of hospitals do not hire LPNs to me it is a slap in the face because in SOuth Carolina I worked at a hospital in the ER non the less and started IV's, assisted with suturing, and anything else that was thrown at me and I came up here and can't even get a job in Med Surg because as I was told "We don't hire LPNs" So I currently work in Nursing homes on Sub acute units which is about the closest thing to a hospital I can get without driving 50 miles. The hospitals that do hire LPN's only want to pay a fraction of what the Nursing homes pay for doing twice the amount of work. There are only 2 or 3 hospitals that I know of in the Baltimore area that hire LPN's at all and it's usually on units similar to the nursing home. Whereas in Alabama, Florida, South Carolina, and Georgia they have LPN's in the ER, Oncology, Med-Surg etc. It almost makes you feel like people think we don't know what we are doing. I know that not all LPN's know how to start IV's, flush lines, assist with various procedures etc. but that should be discussed during the interview process. I think it is ignorant for a facility to simply say "We don't hire LPNs" This especially angers me knowing that I have taught many RN's the correct way to do alot of the things mentioned before and other various things on the floor that is not experienced in the classroom or clinical setting. Because as we all know it is a different world when you get out there. I'm currently in school for my ADN and I vow that I too will never shun anyone for what letters they have behind their name. Because you never know just how much experience they have under their belt. The things I have mentioned are my opinion only and I know everyone has different opinions on this matter but this is mine.
Hi Crystal:
It is a strange world isn't it? I was so anxious last year to get going on a track to Nursing that I was considering going for an LPN instead of an ADN (and then continue to an ADN in my spare time while I was doing LPN work). However, I kept noticing that the Hospitals in this state didn't seem to have LPN's and virtually the only place in my town to get hired at about $10 an hour (just not a living wage) was the hospice care facility that had more LPN's than it would ever need. Now, I know some of this has to do with the laws of the state you are in but listen to the other side of the story.
I was emailing some longtime friends in NY (where I grew up) and found out several were back in school to become LPN's. I asked them why they weren't going to become RN's and they told me it was because they could get $20 to $30 an hour as an LPN in NY because the hospitals there are using LPN's in place of RN's to save money and fill the nursing shortage gap. My friends will be out of school and in a job that pays the same as my more expensive degree a year earlier than me. I guess the laws are different in NY and I'm happy NY is smart enough to do this but it makes me worrisome for my ADN degree in the future. After having spent all this extra time, money and schooling, will I only get the same money as an LPN in 5 or 10 years if more states go the way NY is? Doesn't make me happy at all
i am an LPN and have been for over 30 years--i am currently in school for RN associates--i have a unit manager job in a convalescent home at present which is threatened by laws in CT that are being enforced about a LPN being unable to assess a pt--i feel a bit angry...it seems someone who doesnt even know me is saying after all these years i dont know what i'm doing--i have worked hard to get the experience and to be where i am--but i do understand that is the RULE--one must be an RN to assess and make major decisions--i am older and its late in the game for me but i am glad for this opportunity to get my RN
i DID NOT READ THE ARTICLE THAT YOU REFERRED TO , BUT I HAVE TO SAY THAT LETTING AN LPN SIT FOR BOARDS TO BECOME AN RN IS LIKE, MANY YEARS AGO, PEOPLE BECOMING LPNS BY WAIVER.
IF A PERSON WANTS TO BECOME AN RN, THEN THEY MUST GO TO SCHOOL AND PUT IN THE TIME REQUIRED. yES, THERE ARE CLASSES THAT YOU CAN TEST OUT OF BUT THE NURSING COURSES ARE MANDATORY SO THAT THEORY BEHIND THE DEED BECOMES PART OF KNOWLEDGE. ANYONE CAN DO THE PHYSICAL PART OF NURSING BUT DO THEY UNDERSTAND THE REASONS FOR DOING IT.
ANYONE CAN DO THE PHYSICAL PART OF NURSING BUT DO THEY UNDERSTAND THE REASONS FOR DOING IT.
well that's not quite right either. I know both RN's and LPNs that can't do some of those techincal things and some are much better at them then others. There are those bridge programs for LPNs but I believe all the LPNs I work with do understand the reason they do what we do but maybe it's all that experience.
Re: But of course I am a RN with and Associates Degree and you know that the RN's with the higher degrees BS, etc, don't really think we are full blown nurses either.
I am a nurse educator. Went to school a thousand years ago - got out - hated nursing - "Them that can - DO - and them that can't - TEACH!!!" LOL But that is neither here nor there... As a retired educator - so now I can really speak my mind - I can tell you exactly WHO is the BEST nurse. The absoLUTE BEST is an LPN who has gone back to get an A.D. Next are the LPNs and A.D.s. After more than 20 years as an educator, I can tell you that my greatest fear is of being alone and unconscious in a room with a 4-year BSN and that's the only school he or she has ever been to. ...and it isn't their fault. Their curriculum is weak and they are taught that "arrogance" while they are in school. Needless to say, curriculum reform is one of my BIG issues!!! I would LOVE to see physical education (in the BSN program) replaced with a couple of more clinicals... doncha think???
I'm a RN with a ADN and BSN and I don't think ADN nurses aren't as you say "full blown" nurses. But you are right about the physical education thing. I had my ADN and worked full time (taking care of kids and family too) while getting the BSN and my bowling and sailing classes were pretty useless...I'd been bowling (hey I was in GAA in school and bowling leagues in grade school and know how to keep score no automatic things for me) and sailing is something I will probably never do again. I live on the river in ski boat country. The sailing class didn't even have a test just had to take a weekend on the lake and steer the boat 30 minutes and the rest of the time lay out and get a tan while everyone else took their turn. Besides those classes the humanities were not of a lot of use to me because I'd already studied ancient tradition, read the Iliad (Had a tough highschool) it was interesting but unless I go on Jeopardy not going to help me in nursing.
My BSN clinicals weren't real learning experiences either.
Around here most older students that go to the BSN school opt out and take boards after 2 years then continue for the BSN. I went to a totally different ADN program and transfered for the last 2 years.
But hey Cass we're "well rounded " some of us more than others and in more ways than one..LOLL I told my Introduction to Professional Practice Prof that.... she wasn't happy..LOLL I actually wrote a scholarily(sp) paper on that. APA format and all. TO BSN OR NOT TO BSN. Got an A.. I follow directions well.....LOLLLLL
Loved my Art Class. 14 sessions.. One snow day. 13 sessions. Sign in every time watch a slide show. 5 times to the Art Museum don't have to attend. Final on the board get the answers from someone else.. Learn a number for the matching. 1 800 I don't know a damn thing about art..
Oh yes I do.. Pablo somebody was a cubist... Don't ask me what a cubist is......LOLLLLL
But in all fairness some of the ADN students locally took ceramics.. She owns a ceramic shop now.. Better hours more money I bet.....
now I might like ceramics I need more knick knacks. I have taken sewing and quilting classes but I like that stuff and just added to what I already knew how to do.
Funny thing is I thought I was pretty well rounded before college...poor me had school teacher parents that took summer school every summer. We live in Indiana and dad would have class in Washington state and we'd get there by way of Texas and home through Montana and the badlands. (this was every summer, spring break etc) we stopped at every museum and my mother read us everything at every museum. It was like Chevy Chase family vacation but no dead aunt tied to the top of the car.
There is something to say about good primary and highschool education probably why I never had to study much in college. I want to play who wants to be a millionaire or jeopardy just no opera didn't take that class
::nurse:: ::nurse:: 
