Rude Doctors

[Christof60]

If you want your job and your paycheck, put up with it, especially if you have kids
Document whatever orders he may give you. Report this
to your manager. If this is a persistent problem among
other nurses your charge or manager should be addressing this issue.

I cant agree for two reasons.. First of all, in the doctors mind (my opinion based on the fact they are rude to professionals in the first place) is that they will see this "backdoor attack" as whiny and "tattle-tailie"... I also think it will garner no respect.. Secondly, every place I have worked has coddled doctors, expecially the ones in short supply. Management cant even get them to chart legibly, do their part on the computer charting, etc..

I will usually give them a break once or twice, everyone has bad days and can be grumpy. Next it will be a bewildered stare and a "are you purposely being rude, if you are, I dont appreciate it?".... If that doesnt work, I will usually say something like "When you can treat me like a fellow medical professional, I will be more than happy to talk to you" and walk off. I have even been known to ask them "have you always been an arse hole, or was it a pre-requisite class in Med school"... Lastly, if that doesnt work, I will have a little "side chat" with them as I have previously described.. That has always worked, many times the less vigorous approaches work too..

I remember one surgeon that was always so rude he would bring nurses to tears whenever he was called in.. One night when I was supervising, he was berating an LPN for having the Charge RN call him over her concern of a drain not working, and increasing abd pain (jp drain)...
When I got involved, and I asked him what the problem was, his reply was "Do you know how much hell I catch from the wife when we get woke up at 3am by these stupid nurses?"

I replied to him "First off, these are not stupid nurses, and if they werent here, you would have to be as they are your patients. Secondly, the next time your wife complains about you getting called in, ask her how attached she is to her Benz and if she would like to give it up along with the vacation home, etc..."

His face turned red as a beet, and several days later a couple nurses came up to me and said "What the heck did you say to Dr. *****?, he has been so polite lately it's almost scary"...

[cougarnurse]

Christof....I like that comeback about the Benz. I'd have loved to pop a comment like that to the one A. H. I've dealt with (he was on his 2nd wife), but the DON (female) had her mouth to his a$$, and only SHE could 'talk' to him, for the most part.

Anyhow...let's get back on track. True, some doctors *do* have an attitude problem. Whether that is their 'normal' mode or not....or they are trying to see how much of a 'spine' we nurses have....it is NOT a good thing when it keeps happening.

Cougarnurse

[x91D]

Great topic- JCAHO in 2009 will be releasing their Zero Tolerance document regarding physician abuse of staff. Verbal, physical, it don't matter, if it is abusive it will not be tolerated by JACHO, and hospital administration is going to have deal with it. I am an OR Supervisor and we have a very simple way to deal with Surgeons who go off. 1. The OR staff will call me and tell me whats happening. 2. I go into the OR and see for myself, listen and make our standard management statement of "We can talk about this after your case is done in my office Doctor." 3. At this point they either stop their ranting or they get even more upset. 4. If they get more upset we call the VP of Nursing and Medical Staff. 5. After the case is over the entire staff, techs, nurses and anesthesia all are requested to fill out incident forms which are sent to the Medical Staff office. 6. They call the MD and talk to them, in the case of multiple offenders they sometimes end up going to anger management classes and it does not happen again. Even MDs who bring the hospital "lot of profitiable cases" are not exempt,
and this system has worked very well. No one should be put in a situation where they are verbally abused, but respect is a two way street. If you get into a verbal arguement and escalate it by throwing something, yelling back, etc. your position is very weak. If you maintain a calm demeanor, state that their behavior is not acceptable and will be documented, you would be surprised how many of these arguements just end.

Always document, i don't understand why nurses are so reluctant to document. It provides a clear picture of a habit of abusive behavior, that gives Medical Staff a documented trail to discuss with the surgeon. You might feel that by not reporting an abusive MD you are as one of the nurses put it, "keeping the peace" but all you are doing is telling the MDs that abusive behavior is OK. Don't fall into this trap.

I speak from experience, recently. A surgeon accused me of being incompetent because the OR team did not have a video monitor in the right place, and he ranted and rave. I called the VP Nursing and she had a heart to heart with him that day.
He would not talk to me for a few days, and now treats me like his best buddy. I'm sure my picture is in his garage, stuck on
his dart board, but as long as he is civil in the OR, who cares.

x91D

[debt777]

I work in the OR and rude does not explain it. Some of these surgeons attitudes and behaviors are inappropriate. The sad thing is that some of the CRNA's, RN's and scrub techs behave similar. I have only been in this area for about a year and a half and I have every intention on leaving. It is not the work that has me wanting to leave this area it is the people. It's like a good rock concert "you like the music but not the crowd"!! I can understand why some choose this area. The patients and family members would not stand for their behaviors. I get to hear this all day at work "thats just the way he/she is". Well Im sorry if thats the way they are I surely dont want them taking care of my family! When I care for patients and families I think of how I would want my family treated and it comes very easy to me to have patience, sympathy and empathy.

[Tachyman55]

My response to rude doc are: " Doc do you know the difference between God and Doctors? God knows he's not a doctor." This usually stops them in their tracts. Not always but they have come in with more respect the next time.

[Reneec]

I remember once, many years ago, when the way a doctor humiliated me actually brought me to tears, but I didn't have the nerve to talk back. I think you have every right to stand up for your dignity. Doctors are only people, too, and if they didn't ask "stupid" questions when they were learning their trade they probably never would have received their degree.
Reneec

[Wo87pooh]

The doctor I work with treats me horribly. I just finished school, and I did my training at his office. Im a fairly timid person, and I dont like to speak much, but I do when I have to of course, but Im mostly the mouse in the office. Today the doctor yelled at me and told me he doesnt know how they let me out of school and I should be ashamed of myself. Why? Because I told him about pain a patient was experiencing in her back. He asked was this pain new, and I told him no. He didnt give me a chance to say anything to him about what the patient expressed to me about her condition. Its always like this. It hurt me so much I cried. I dont know how to deal with this man when he yells at me this way. I nearly quit and walked out, and this is my first year out of college, I just graduated last week. March 27th to be exact. Someone please help me. I love my job and I love what I do, but I just don't know how to deal with someone who speaks to me as if Im nothing. I havent been treated so badly by someone in a work place like this. BTW I work for a Chiropractor but he is also an MD, I do my nursing and physical therapy here, someone please help me with this.

[hppygr8ful]

The doctor I work with treats me horribly. I just finished school, and I did my training at his office. Im a fairly timid person, and I dont like to speak much, but I do when I have to of course, but Im mostly the mouse in the office. Today the doctor yelled at me and told me he doesnt know how they let me out of school and I should be ashamed of myself. Why? Because I told him about pain a patient was experiencing in her back. He asked was this pain new, and I told him no. He didnt give me a chance to say anything to him about what the patient expressed to me about her condition. Its always like this. It hurt me so much I cried. I dont know how to deal with this man when he yells at me this way. I nearly quit and walked out, and this is my first year out of college, I just graduated last week. March 27th to be exact. Someone please help me. I love my job and I love what I do, but I just don't know how to deal with someone who speaks to me as if Im nothing. I havent been treated so badly by someone in a work place like this. BTW I work for a Chiropractor but he is also an MD, I do my nursing and physical therapy here, someone please help me with this.

No one deserves to be treated badly - Under normal conditions I would tell you to get another job - but the economy being what it is - Even experience nurses are having a hard time finding job.

Being as you are nonconfrontational makes it harder for you - but you have to learn to stand up for yourself as there is no shortage of rude nasty doctors and even some nurses who will give you a hard time every heard the expressions "Nurses eat their young"? You would do best to keep emotion out of it and simply confront his statements with truth. In other words if he calls you stupid then say something like - I graduated from nursing school so I know I'm not stupid - and please don't talk to me that way.

Often people who are rude don't even realize how rude they are until they are confronted.

When I was working as a CNA while in nursing school I had a doctor yell at me in the hallway because I helped a patient of his to the bathroom. The patient was ambulatory and there was no orders for patient not to ambulate.
The doctor was acutally curing at me in the hallway. I stood straight up and said he had no right to speak to me that way. He wrote a letter to my nuring school telling them I was insubordinate and should be expelled from the program. Long story short I ended taking him to the Hospital Ethics board then he had to apologize to me. You got to stand up for yourself girl.


Peace and Namaste


Hppy

[Ricu]

Hi there,

In varying degrees, we see this behavior somewhat regularly in medicine so you will get practice in dealing with it. Fortunately, the generation of handmaiden demanding doctors is retiring but sadly, there will never be an end to arrogance. If this has never happened before, maybe he was having a bad day and unloaded on you but verbally assaulting someone is inexcusable, regardless. This man is likely arrogant and self absorbed and has no idea his behavior is unacceptable. Nobody checks him on it therefore he doesn't change. This is important, each time he gets away with verbal bullying it's an affirmation of the behavior. "I get away with it so, it must be okay to do."
Next time, mid tirade, firmly interrupt him. "Excuse me. Doctor, I will not have you speak to me this way. Please change your tone and I will listen to what you have to say." Unless he's a real idiot, he will be taken back, apologize, make some lame excuse and change his tone. More importantly, you will have the benefit of gaining his respect for standing up to him. When he acts up again AND he will, all you will have to do is make eye contact (important) and give him a stern look, maybe put a hand up, like "STOP", but more than likely you won't have to fully correct him again. In the unlikely event that he continues his rant, say, "I don't have to take this." Turn and walk away. He will stop then because your leaving took control and ended the attack.

If communication cannot be civil, leave this job because your self esteem shouldn't suffer like that. Don't worry, you will find another place to work.

Keep us posted and, good luck.

R

[Teeituptom]

I work in Trauma ER and have so for a very long time.

We had a trauma come in, that was only moderately challenging. But we have this one young trauma doc, Doesnt even look as if he is old enough to shave. But he got uppity and rude and made 2 of the young nurse cry with his remarks. He didnt affect me of course.

I looked at him, and told him what a good job he had done. Then I said, "You are almost good enough to be on Grey's Anatomy" Then everyone just laughed at him. He started to say something back to me, but I just stood up tall and looked down on him and smiled evilly.

I was Corpsman in Nam, and have been an RN forever it seems. Rude doctors are not a problem to handle.