Okay, you'd think with the great press and ad campaigns that have been seen this past year, nursing associations and their executive directors would become more sensitive to gender biased statements being made to the press, but nooooooooo! Here's is a quote from a major newspaper (I'll leave nameless) by the Executive Director of that state's (which I'll also leave unnamed) nursing association. This isn't just any association either, it's the official state affiliate of the ANA. She said "...there is a severe shortage of nurses as women bypass the field...". It is high time that the ANA and each of its state members adopt a formal communication policy that agressively addresses the issue of gender bias in both print and written communications, statements, etc. Nursing is not a profession of, by, and for women. And while I'm at it, let me just say I really dislike the term "male nurse". I'm not a male nurse, I'm a nurse. When someone asks me what I do for a living, after 20 years, and I can finally say with great pride "I'm a nurse.". Listen, we don't say "female doctor" do we? It sure has a very different meaning that let's say a women who happens to be a cardiovascular surgeon, don't you think? So let's refer to ourselves as men educated in nursing if we must attach a gender statement.
When people ask me "So you're a male nurse?" I say "no, I treat females too". But I know what you're saying. I'm the only male at my LTC facility and the only male in my current rotation in school (trying to be an RN), and my instructors say things sometimes like that. I just make it a point never to say that I'm a male nurse. I am a nurse.
I think that a huge reason nursing is facing the big shortage is that they only actively tap half of the population. My college just opened an EMT to RN program, and they're hoping to increase the number of nursing students they can service, and hoping it'll bring more guys into the field. I think they have the right idea, although I have yet to see a male lecture instructor there. There are a couple of male clinical instructors, so I suppose that's a step in the right direction.
Lastly, I think you're right about the language of this whole situation being important. Language provides a framework for thought and perception. It's like that old riddle about the man who brings his son to the surgeon, and the surgeon says "I can't operate on this boy, he's my son!" and nobody gets it (the surgeon is his mom). That's how people think about the word "nurse". I've heard the term "medic" tossed around, but I think that instead of changing the word for what we mean, we must change the meaning behind the word. Nobody will ever insult me by calling me a nurse. I advertise it like crazy.
Thus, I think that as we are able to bring men into the profession, we will necessarily change the perception of the terminology. At the same time, will men consider nursing a viable career option if even the nursing infrastructure uses gender bias language like "...as women bypass the field..." I don't know. I don't think it's helpful. So maybe we men support a two-pronged approach to this one possible solution to the nursing shortage:
1. We encourage use of language that suggests men as part of the nursing collective, using language to influence our reality.
2. We encourage men to join, regardless of the terminology they hear, explaining our acceptance within the nursing collective in spite of what people say, thus using reality to influence our language.
I agree that sensitivity to terminology would help a lot in this issue fellas, but I also think that along with working on that aspect nursing schools and associations could consider a much more proactive approach that would help get rid of the public's misguided perception of males nurses (as gay) as well.
Ad campaigns that targeted male military medics and depicted them caring for sick & injured during wartime as well as giving shots & wellness checks to villagers during humanitarian missions would do well. Agressively advertise on TV and in magazines and invite these types to enroll in RN programs. Give them some credit for their military training.. and get the perception of macho males doing nursing out there to the public!
Pat,
Although I'm a female nusre (only specifiy so you know I'm not a guy) I want you to know I have a pretty good understanding as my significant other is a nurse. He's been in nursing for about 10 years after a business career...what a difference the 2 professions have proven to be for him!
I do have to tell you however, that gender bias is only one of the problems....
as a group, nurses have historically been protrayed as "bimbos" in the media. I distinctly remember a campaign in the 80's . by the nursing associations, to change the way nurses were protrayed on various TV programs. Things have gotten better...by it's taken some time...give it time.
I've been in nursing for 27 years and continue to believe that "eating our young" is still one of the biggest problems. As a seasoned nurse, how can one feel a new nurse is a "PIA" or threat? I don't know but I've seen to many times when the inexperienced nurse is treated poorly, or as stupid simply because they ask a question or haven't experienced a certian situation and are unfamiliar as to how to handle it.
Know that most of us simply want educated, dedicated, people to enter the nursing field. Those who practice gender bias, eating the young, etc don't count anyway. Hopefully you can develope a tough skin and let it roll off your back...learn to take the good things about nursing to heart and forget or ignore the bad things if you can't change them. Although I still haven't given up on my attempt s to make changes! I'm just old and stuburn!!
I was just reading on the ANA website where a school in Oregon was advertising for nurses on the sports page, and male-type magazines. Their posters were of guys looking like guys, "Some are dressed to show their interests outside of nursing, such as snowboarding or motorcycle riding. Other accompanying information concentrates on work settings and backgrounds, such as serving as a U.S. Navy seal." My school started an EMT to RN program that's drawing a lot of guys. It's cool. I just wrote a 500 word essay to get into University of Michigan about the shortage in nursing, and speciafically how men could contribute to its alleviation, so I'm still geeked on the subject .
Hey all, I'm a newbie. Not even a nursing student--yet. Actually will start at university this fall, doing my prerequisite science courses and hoping to get into an accelerated BSN program.
Anyway, a propos to this thread, I wanted to mention that in German, nurses used to be known as a (literally) "sister for the sick" (Krankenschwester). Now, as they seem to be more accepting of men in this role, the term has changed to "Caregiver" (Krankenpfleger). I personally prefer the term Medic, but maybe if we first change the meaning behind the term and the social attitudes toward the term 'nurse', it would be to everyone's benefit (Male, Female, Patient, etc.).
Just my 2 cents.
BTW, I'm just shy of 40, was in banking and then turned to acting, both of which weren't fulfilling by themselves.
Amen to what Pat said I am a nurse... not a male nurse, I am a NURSE !!!
Most biblical references to 'nurse' or 'nursing' describe the term as an act rather than a title or profession. We nurse the sick back to health, or at least we try... and that is something to be very proud of.
I would also like to respond to Otakar (above post) who said that he preferred the term 'Medic'... well my friend, after you have finished nursing school and begin your practice, I am absolutely certain that you will change your tune, and will be proud to tell people that you are a Nurse
I am a NURSE:
Patients and family members will call me doctor. I say, "No, I Work for a living."
Wife of a patient said, "sorry honey, I guess you thought you were going to get a pretty one." I said, "you calling me ugly. I may be bald, but give me a break."
Red neck asked me once if I was gay. I said, "no, why are you."
I get very sarcastic with bias stupid remarks, made by people who just doent know any better. Dah
I have given up on taking affront to or trying smart remarks when asked if I am a nurse. I just smile and confidently inform the patient/family that I am indeed the nurse for the day (have to admit I still THINK those remarks). It's taken me 25 years to reach this point though. I just assume that most patients and families dont have a friggin clue what goes on inside a hospital (esp the ICU where I work) unless they have had a loved one critically ill before.
Its all perception- and we are perceived in the general public as bimbos (female) or gay +/- underachiever (could have been a Doctor afterall). In Nursing school I had only one freshman classmate give me a hard time about gay VS hetero due to choice of Nursing- the rest took it in stride or stayed silent.
Gender bias and assumptions are so ingrained that people just assume I am a Doctor when I go into a room or ask me to "go get the nurse" for them. Beat...beat...beat...Oh...thats you- ok well here's whats wrong.... and I take care of it. Takes a little longer to develop trust with some patients and families sometimes.
Changing the name of nursing will not solve a thing - unless its part of an overall program to change the publics perception of nursing which is really the issue as I see it.
[ QUOTE ] Generation2 said:
I just make it a point never to say that I'm a male nurse. I am a nurse.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I must disagree. I'm very proud to be a Male as well as an RN. Therefore, I choose to proudly say I'm a Male RN. IMHO, a vast majority of the public still sees nursing as females wearing the white hat & white uniform. Yes, I agree the role of a nurse should be the same, no matter if a nurse is male or female. Nevertheless, what better way to show patients & their family members the "white hat nurse" is in the distant past by proudly representing the male nurse.
[ QUOTE ] 1mg.epi said:
I am a NURSE:
Patients and family members will call me doctor. I say, "No, I Work for a living."
Wife of a patient said, "sorry honey, I guess you thought you were going to get a pretty one." I said, "you calling me ugly. I may be bald, but give me a break."
Red neck asked me once if I was gay. I said, "no, why are you."
I get very sarcastic with bias stupid remarks, made by people who just doent know any better. Dah
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, they just don't know any better... so, rather than getting sarcastic with bias stupid remarks made by others just be yourself, a proud male nurse. This way your example will spread like wild fire to the ignorant masses that nurses can be heterosexual males, and better yet that all nurses are nurses.
[ QUOTE ] GratefulTedd said:
I have given up on taking affront to or trying smart remarks when asked if I am a nurse. I just smile and confidently inform the patient/family that I am indeed the nurse for the day (have to admit I still THINK those remarks). It's taken me 25 years to reach this point though. I just assume that most patients and families dont have a friggin clue what goes on inside a hospital (esp the ICU where I work) unless they have had a loved one critically ill before.
Its all perception- and we are perceived in the general public as bimbos (female) or gay +/- underachiever (could have been a Doctor afterall). In Nursing school I had only one freshman classmate give me a hard time about gay VS hetero due to choice of Nursing- the rest took it in stride or stayed silent.
Gender bias and assumptions are so ingrained that people just assume I am a Doctor when I go into a room or ask me to "go get the nurse" for them. Beat...beat...beat...Oh...thats you- ok well here's whats wrong.... and I take care of it. Takes a little longer to develop trust with some patients and families sometimes.
Changing the name of nursing will not solve a thing - unless its part of an overall program to change the publics perception of nursing which is really the issue as I see it.
[/ QUOTE ] My sentiments exactly!
BTW, what is up with this Graemlin ... That Graemlin should be removed from this forum, STAT...IMHO That mentality is exactly what keeps the nursing profession from being non-gender bias.
I am a student in college taking an English class where we have to take a stereotype and first prove that there is reason for ir and then prove that it is false. I have chosen "male nurses must be gay" because my boyfriend is a male nurse and I know the looks I get from people when they ask me what his profession is. What I am wondering is where to prove that there is "proof" of the reason for this stereotype. I know it is not true seeing as I am dating a nurse, but I need proof in a written formet both on and off the internet. Any help would be great. Also feel free to email me at jcobb012@student.monroecc.edu
[ QUOTE ] jenn4.5 said:
I am a student in college taking an English class where we have to take a stereotype and first prove that there is reason for ir and then prove that it is false. I have chosen "male nurses must be gay" because my boyfriend is a male nurse and I know the looks I get from people when they ask me what his profession is. What I am wondering is where to prove that there is "proof" of the reason for this stereotype. I know it is not true seeing as I am dating a nurse, but I need proof in a written formet both on and off the internet. Any help would be great. Also feel free to email me at jcobb012@student.monroecc.edu
[/ QUOTE ]
Below is a copy & paste of a term paper I did last semester in my UTMB Galveston RN-BSN program.
References to nursing need to be gender neutral to facilitate breaking down the gender – based associations with the nursing profession. Advertisements of female nurses wearing the white hat and crisp white uniform is a disservice to both male and female nurses. A conscious effort should be made to refrain from referring to all nurses as “she”. Kleinman (2004) stated language and images are often the most dominant and influential forces in our culture. Nurses, within the profession, must overcome the gender bias that became automatic in the 1900’s. Domrose (2003) stated most nurses don’t care who you are, male or female, as long as you can do the job. Domrose also found most patients don’t care either if their nurse is a male or female.
Traditional lines of thought such as nursing is “women’s work” further devalues the profession for both male and female nurses. The superior – subordinate physician – nurse relationship is no longer the norm in the health care industry just as the male – female husband – housewife role is no longer the norm in society. The Florence Nightingale era, although her contributions to nursing were tremendous, has long past. Kleinman (2004) stated Florence Nightingale advocated standards of conduct for nurses that emphasized deference, and obedience, which institutionalized the patriarchal base and power of men, as physicians, in health care. Men in nursing can foster a new physician – nurse professional relationship that female nurses can benefit from.
Lessons can be learned from military nursing in regard to the high percentage of men in all three services. In Boivin’s article (2002) on men in military nursing concluded the chances of having an all –male team of RNs is more than five times as likely to occur in the military. Boivin reported that in the Army 35.5% of the nurses are men, in the Navy 36% are men, and in the Air force 30% of the nurses are men. A camaraderie exist between the military nurses and physicians. In the military nurses hold the rank of officer same as the military physicians. Boivin found that while they don’t list it high on the reasons they became military nurses, men do admit being in the military carries less of a stigma than the still – stereotyped image of civilian male nurses.
If you would like to see references for the above cited I'll be glad to email them to you. I seriously doubt you will find hard statistics on male heterosexual nurses v. male homosexual nurses. In otherwords, out of the 6% male nursing population, I doubt you will find in the literature abroad a breakdown in sexual perference. BTW, I (a male heterosexual nurse) do know of several lesbian nurses, for whatever that is worth.
I have been a psychiatric RN for 20 years. Since we don't wear uniforms our occupation is often unclear. I have had many patients introduce me to visitors: "This is John, he's a male nurse." But here's the funny thing... they usually say it with PRIDE! I think it's like someone else said, most people just have no idea of what goes on in a hospital. I personally feel no need to fix anything in this regard. I just try to set an example of professionalism and compassion and hope that's what people remember.
[ QUOTE ] hukilau said:
I have been a psychiatric RN for 20 years. Since we don't wear uniforms our occupation is often unclear. I have had many patients introduce me to visitors: "This is John, he's a male nurse." But here's the funny thing... they usually say it with PRIDE! I think it's like someone else said, most people just have no idea of what goes on in a hospital. I personally feel no need to fix anything in this regard. I just try to set an example of professionalism and compassion and hope that's what people remember.
[/ QUOTE ] Setting the example for both male nurses & nurses in general is right on!
I couldnt agree more with your post.... I am very close to quitting this profession since I have fought this type of thing since becoming a nurse in 1993.... The worst offenders are female nurses of the old school. Flat out mean and treat males as bad or worse in their dominated profession as they have complained of being treated historically in male dominated professions... I never even got to assist in one delivery in my OB rotation in school (only male in my OB rotation) and have been placed on probation by a female DNS for "having the gall" to place tele leads on a female cardiac patient (exposing a breast) without having another female nurse at the bedside.. What kind of crap is that? Females cath male patints all the time with no other staff there, but just try cathing a female without another nurse present and kiss your job goodby... Called into HR one time and given a written warning because a female had made a comment r/t my male anatomy (in a joking way) and I had not made an issue out of it... Can you believe that? Had I made a comment about a female co-workers anatomy and I would have been out the door in a heartbeat...
Sorry for going on and on, but a vast majority of female nurses should be ashamed of themselves for their conduct. A great male nurse is not congratulated on a job well done, but rather despised as someone "clawing their way to the top". I will never recommend to any young man to enter this profession, and that is sad. It used to make me feel so fulfilled, now it simply makes me feel like I want out.. PA school here I come.
I am an R.N. who is workingon my BSN. I have been a Nurse for almost 9 years now and have experienced the gender stereo-type first hand. The first question I was asked when I started my first job had nothing to do with nursing at all. It was a question fishing for my sexual orientation.
I promptly alerted the staff member who asked me teh probing question that I was indedd heterosexual but if I were not would it be a problem? The yreplied no so I asked why did it mater in the first place.
I am writing a paper now for a class that has to do with personal culture and since nursing is a major part of my life I am choosing it as subject matter.
I do not agree with the term "Male Nurse" and have had heated discussion with the faculty at school regarding the use of this term to somehow seperate the MEN from the Women .
I am proud to be a Nurse and greatful for this site!! this is my first post.
I think all this belly aching is rediculous. Male, female, gay stright who cares??? There are way more important nursing issues to contend with (like showing up on time). I'm a male nurse and when someone refers to me as a male nurse weather it be a coworker or patient it doesen't phase me a bit nor should it. Maybe it's the New York in me. All you guys out there who it does bother, GET A LIFE! You sound like the biggest bunch of whiners.
I just did a paper for freshman english here at Syracuse University, and happened to find this forum while researching. This is my paper if you're interested ...
The Hyper-Visibility of the Male Nurse and the Invisibility of the Male Nurse’s Discrimination and Struggles
Nursing has been a profession throughout history. The first known record of nursing as a profession was in ancient Rome when groups of men organized to treat victims of the plague. The first American nurses were medics during the civil war; most of which were male. Women nurses, although the minority gained much recognition due to their involvement, and in 1901 the United States Nurse Corp was formed, a strictly female organization. Since then, the nursing profession has become primarily female dominated and therefore schools, organizations and workplaces all have turned towards female interests. In response to these actions and divisions, the nursing profession became stereotypically female in the mind of society, and the male nurse became invisible. The hyper-visibility of female nurses is very prevalent today, even as more male nurses join the nursing workforce. The new merge of males into the nursing profession is due to many different issues including higher pay, a greater demand for nurses, and an improvement in tolerance and understanding of diversity in society. Still, male nurses are stereotyped and face struggles in the classroom and in their profession. This is the result of decades of generalizing nurses as female, and in turn, male nurses face discrimination from educators, patients, and other nurses. Male nurses struggle with the stereotypes placed on them due to the dominance of women in the nursing practices. In this way, male nurses are not easily accepted by society, even with growing numbers in the field and people and groups pushing for equality for male nurses.
The Civil War began to shape nursing in America into its modern form. At that time males were the dominate gender in the field, because nursing was based around the military, and the military was primarily male. However, female nurses were most recognized for their nursing efforts in the war and still are today. A hyper-visibility of female nurses began due to the fact that women on the battlefield were a rarity. Women who undertook this job were the first to be a part of the on battle site military, and therefore were honored as daring and courageous, much more so than male military nurses. The, then, newfound popularity and familiarity of the female nurse drastically transformed the profession into being female dominated. In the late 1800’s the American Nurses Association (ANA) was formed, then under the name Nurses Associated Alumnae and was strictly female. This rule remained until 1930 when the organization began to accept men, but in a once all female organization, male membership was rare. The United States Nurse Corp formed as part of the military in 1901 was also strictly male. It wasn’t until the Korean War when men were finally allowed into this division. These two organizations dominated the two occupational fields in the United States, public and governmental. In this way these associations, not only affected, but guided the segregation in the field of nursing from their formation around the turn of the 19th century with decades of strict codes against male nurses.
Male nurses, today, account for about 5.7 percent of the Registered and Professional Nurses in America, the most popular types of nurses, and 5.4 percent of all nursing professions. In nursing schools, about 13% of students are male. This shows a strong rise in the male interest in the field of nursing. Increased male interest in the field of nursing can be tied to several issues. First, nursing school enrollment is down, and there is now a shortage of nurses in many areas throughout the United States. This has provoked interest in males because nursing is now a field with many job and advancement opportunities that other professions can no longer offer. Also, due to the increased need and also increased specialization of nurses, the wage of nurses is rising at a higher rate than many other professions. A job as a nurse can be a very effecient job for a male in a household with both working parents. In addition, with the growing acceptance and tolerance of breaking gender barriers in society today, males are more willing, and less embarrassed, to enter a female dominated field.
In addition to the increased advantages of males entering nursing, schools and job providers are also taking new steps to promote males into the nursing profession. A new slogan “Are you man enough to wear white” is part of a campaign by medical educators. This statement is specifically designed to break the feminine stereotype of nurses and, in contrast, promote a masculine attitude about the profession. This type of campaign has been successful because the rate of males to females entering nursing school has risen greatly. Sadly however, dropout rates in nursing schools for male nurses are higher than those for male nurses. After completion of college or nursing school, male nurses continue to struggle. Male nurses have a significantly lower job satisfaction and leave the profession at twice the rate of female nurses. This is most likely due to many factors that have risen due to the female dominance of the occupation.
Gender discrimination for nurses begins in the classroom where classes are focused primarily towards the female student. Books and other materials, especially older references can refer to nurses as “she”, indicating all nurses are female, and mention males only as patients or doctors, never nurses. In this way, males have been placed in a learning environment with a sharp female bias. In the workplace, male nurses often stand out against the female nurses and are often treated differently by their supervisors, co-workers, and patients. In this way, male nurses feel and often are forced to perform at a higher at a higher standard due to their hyper-visibility. Patients often resent or even reject male nurses, because they are uncomfortable, probably due to stereotypes and mental preconceptions. This is especially evident in labor and delivery departments of hospitals where male nurses may not be permitted either by their job description or patient request.
The nursing occupation is generally stereotyped as feminine, because of the job history and also qualities of a typical nurse. Nurses are expected to be caring, gentle, and compassionate, qualities stereotyped as female and rejected by males. In this way, male nurses have to break this barrier and in doing so are often generalized as feminine. This can lead to accusations of homosexuality or weakness, both strong and damaging classifications to males in modern society. These stereotypes are often very hard to deal with, and take strong self-confidence to get over. In addition, male nurses can be seen as unmotivated and under-achievers, as compared to other medical professionals, primarily doctors. These stereotypes can cause embarrassment and stress among male nurses in the workplace, and in public, which most likely leads to the high quitting rate.
Media has a large role in the portrayal of male nurses to the public. Movies and TV shows reflect life situations in a surreal manner, often times using stereotypes for character development and humor. One such from of media is “Meet the Parents” in which the character Gaylord (Greg) Focker, played by Ben Stiller, is a male nurse. The name “Gaylord Focker” is an obvious stereotypical characterization, which immediately implies homosexuality. His personality is depicted as flamboyant and his speech flippant. Engaged to his fiancée, Pam, Greg is criticized and made fun of by Pam’s parents, specifically her father, for his homosexual-like flamboyancy, tall tales, and most importantly his occupation as a nurse. In a dialogue from the movie, Greg’s occupation is clearly diminished by the characters of Jack Byrnes and Bob Banks.
Jack: Greg’s in medicine too.
Bob: What field?
Greg: Nursing.
Bob: Ha ha ha ha. No really, what field are you in?
Greg: Nursing.
In this conversation, nursing as a male profession is clearly rejected, by the character of Bob, as a means for satirical humor. The laughing and requisitioning implies a denial of the possibility of a male nurse and is direct and demeaning. Through these types of media portrayal of male nurses, society is not only given the idea that males do not belong in the nursing profession but also that using male nurse stereotypes is acceptable for humor.
Humor, derived from males in the nursing profession, can come from sources outside of the media. T-shirts sold online at AllHeart.com can be found with the saying “Be nice to me/ when you’re in the hospital/ Your butt is in My hands!” The T-shirt, entitled “Be Nice to Male Nurses Medical Humor T-Shirt” can be bought for $14.98 plus shipping and handling. This commercial example of humor expands the exploitation of male nurses, by almost literally selling the stereotypes. This T-shirt directly attacks and generalizes male nurses as aggressive and dangerous. The “Be nice to me…” statement, demonstrates a demand for power, which can lead the fear and suspicion of male nurses, both by patients and co-workers. In the utmost irony, the T-shirt is directly targeted for sale to male nurses, which are the people it is segregating against. A male in the nursing profession, who wears the shirt, would in fact be generalizing himself, and therefore only adding to the stereotypes that lead to the suspicion and fear as well as the other negative mentalities associated with male nurses.
Males in nursing have strong opinions toward the stereotypes and generalizations as well as the discrimination that these mindsets create. A poll by Male Nurse Magazine posed the question, “Do you feel that males are represented fairly within nursing?” In response almost two-thirds, over 65%, chose the response, “No, I feel we are overlooked at this time”. According Male Nurse Magazine an increase in the choice of the “No …” response has risen in rate, from previous surveys that posted the same question and choices. A clear majority of male nurses do feel that inequalities occur for them either in or outside of the workplace. This majority is growing, and therefore the broadness and importance of the unfairness is also increasing.
Males in the nursing profession are both invisible and hyper-visible in the scope of society. Visually in the work place they are hyper-visible because they stand out in a strongly female dominated profession. To patients and coworkers a nurse that has a title beginning with Mr. is unusual and therefore treated in a different manner. Patients and staff often deal with, and have different standards, for male nurses. This only adds to the hyper-visibility of the male nurse. Males in nursing are invisible in that their struggles and efforts to revise bias in nursing often times are under appreciated or unnoticed. Society and the media are not as interested in male nurses breaking gender barriers as women in male profession. Also, Women are usually given more respect and credibility for their efforts in breaking their barriers. In this way, male nurse occupational gender barrier movements are hyper-visible, especially compared to the women’s movements.
Male nurses face the same type of struggles, and often at a higher level, than females breaking gender barriers in other professions. The typically suppressed female worker along with other groups is using several types of discrimination to hold back males in the field of nursing. This reveals a reverse segregation for male nurses which is gaining throughout society. Whereas stereotypes of certain groups are highly discouraged and penalized in today’s society, jokes and generalizations of male nurses are often accepted in both society and the media. This greatly hampers the male nursing movements, and greatly affects male nurses in their confidence and mentality. This can lead to poorer job performance and poorer job satisfaction. Many male nurses are pushed to the point of leaving their job. The discrimination that male nurses face in America today needs to be recognized by society so that acceptance and respect can be given to both male and female nurses equally. If not, the previous stereotypes will remain, and male nurses will continue to be held down, unable to ever experience gender equality in nursing.
I guess I live/work in a whole different world. I was one of 9 guys in my class, and 1 of the 4 that graduated. I have never felt as if I was being discriminated against by any of my classmates or the instructors. The other 5 just couldn't hang. I had some of the best classmates I couldn't have asked for better friends. This was 10 years ago.
Just to clarify it for those out there that may be wondering: I was married for 10 years ( NOT GAY) when I started Nursing School ( my second career). I wore student nurse whites during the day, and kevlar body armor, carried a handgun, and searched buildings in the middle of the night, frequently without any police officers, in the part of town no one should be walking around in alone at night, when the burglar alarms went off. I held down a fulltime job, all the way thru school. I had to, I had a wife and a 4 y.o. girl, and even managed to conceive my second daughter during the final clinical semester.
From Shawn's paper, it sounds like I must be some kind of freak of nature. I honestly didn't get treated any different by my classmates, and was made to feel very welcome and encouraged by my instructors. I was 26 when I went back to school, and had only 3 more classes to go on my law enforcement degree. However, I decided that if I was going to actually help people, it wasn't going to be playing the role of social worker with a gun.
I am not bothered at all to be called a "male nurse". If you are that uptight about it, you have major self-esteem issues. I wish I would have figured out what I wanted to be when I grow up ( 40 and still feel like a teenager
Anyhow. I'm done rambling.
Never, ever, was I made to feel as if my sexual preference was in question. None of the other 8 guys were gay either. Maybe I'm the exception to the rule, but I actually get along quite well with women. I am living proof that a man and woman ( both hetero ) can be friends.
The only people that ever referred to me as a "male" nurse, were my grandparents, i.e. 70+ y.o.
I feel you man. You are not the only one. There are many of us that are seen as second rate nurses or feel discriminated against.
I graduated in 1993 too and have to tell you.. do the NP thing. If not you will have to take all the sciences all over again. Anatomy, physio, micro etc. wheeeee. You do the same things as a PA but without the hassle.
Nursing is a predominantly female profession, so many times you have to put up with the drama.
Then later they wonder why men leave nursing...
My focus has never been on your socks matching or where you got your outfit, etc. All I want to know what you doing for the patients assigned to you.
About your write up. You make a valid point about placing leads. Ive worked in an ER for five years and placed so many leads on chests that I am sure I have exposed multiple breast (if you dont get over bone.. bad conduction)as a matter of fact we remove all their clothes in trauma. What were the circumstances of the exposure.. were others present? DID you take a long time placing the leads on the geriatric (LOL)?
I am making alot inferences, but it could be harassment if it continues.
Get a good precepting male to give you good advise.
Male nurse's are discriminated against in school and at work. Having been through BSN program graduated with election to National honor society and kicked out of grad school by female instructors who didn't hesitate to fabricate and falsify evaluations on several occassions. I wouldn't do this again if I had the choice. Will recomend physical therapy, surgical tech, respiratory or extra corporeal tech positions. I have not placed a foley in any women under sixty without having a female RIGHT there. Over the years have mostly women patients some who are down right hostile to men as nurses. They usually don't complain if their Doctors are men.
I am to start university to get my BsN. I am a 32 year old male who works in mobile hydraulics. I have seen the ignorance customers show towards women who work in mobile hydraulics. The fact is that most of the people who treat women in mobile hydraulics like the are all ignorami, who themselves are totally ignorant of some of the most basic things in life. I have been working with the public for 12 years; in those 12 years I have realized that it does not matter how ignorant and rude people are, it is my attitude that counts more than anything.
I think my attitude may be tested because being a male where I work is considered normal. However when I become a nurse I think I will know what it is like to have the tables turned on me. I think it is going to be an interesting turn of events.
What the hell is mobile hydraulics? Do you repair backhoes or do you jack up buildings? Or is it hydraulic transmissions in earthmoving equipment? Or do you sell hydraulic equpment in Alabama? Come on man, inquiring minds want to know.
I deal in mobile hydraulics. Mobile hydraulics would deal with small hydraulic equipment such as: single stage hydraulic cylinders, logsplitters, 12v power packs for snow ploughs, smaller older farm tractors, house and building jacks, or just hydraulics for the common man. Nothing like big backhoes or large hydraulic machinery found in a factory, that would be industrial hydraulics. I sell design and repair all the small stuff. Things that a landowner might have on his property, or a farmer. Oh yeah don't forget the flex line also. Hope that helps.
I did not want to mention too much about my job because it has nothing to do with nursing, unless one counts oil induction, then one will be quite familiar with the sight of nurses.
I just wanted to point out how women who work in mobile hydraulics are seen by most people who use them, thats all, and that I may soon feel the discrimination that they feel, I hope not. In my dealings I have met lots of ignorant people, and I am sure that I will meet many more when I become an RN. I hope though that my 12 years of working with the public will help me to deal with some of the people problems I encounter as an RN
Gender bias goes both ways in lots of different positions. When I worked in a factory I was the 1st woman to operate a certain machine then once I did it a couple of others tried out for those positions and got them. It was heave work (lifting about 50# every 5 minutes) but stayed in better shape then I do now (a few years and kids later). I didn't have too much problem since there were other women in the department also but a woman who operated a machine on the other side of the plant got treated like she was "butch" but then when she got married...then had a baby OMG she had a woman life outside of that plant that those men makinng fun of her didn't know about....remember the first woman you say working on a road crew? or truck driver?
Like any other profession/job there are both good and bad men and women if we could all just get along. It will be along time before the stereotypes go away if they ever do. Before my grandmother died (at 98 lived at home until the week before) any man she saw when she was in the hospital was the MD and any woman was always the nurse no mater if they were MD, nurse, housekeeper, dietary, maint etc etc.
[ QUOTE ] lastchanceatidiocy said:Mobile hydraulics would deal with small hydraulic equipment such as: single stage hydraulic cylinders, logsplitters, 12v power packs for snow ploughs, smaller older farm tractors, house and building jacks, or just hydraulics for the common man.
[/ QUOTE ]
So this is the stuff you see them use on Monster Garage? Pretty cool what can be done with hydraulics. Are you a fabricator?
Pretty cool what can be done with hydraulics. Are you a fabricator?
I do not fabricate the crazy stuff like they do on monster garage. My favorite part of the job is doing all the math that is involved, and system design itself. It is more stuff a small business or a property owner would use.
There is a lot of problem solving involved. It is cool to see what people will strap a hydraulic system to. Some of it is downright ridiculous, and dangerous. The way people treat hydraulics, like it is nothing, no danger at all. They feel for leaks with their bare hands. The best is when they want me to fix an old beaten up hose. They would rather pay $20 to fix a decrepid old hose, than $30 to get a new one. The dummies they put a value of a whole $10 on their lives. At least I will look out for them.
On that note, I was wondering if you people ever see a lot of oil induction accidents. I got some cool pictures of what they had to do to the accident victims, to keep them from dying.
Oil Induction Accident . . . is that like getting sprayed with hot oil at high pressure or is that having the whole deal blowup in your face. Which ever, that is definitly going to leave a mark. As for the pictures, if shortbus ever gets aroung to fixing this forum so we can upload avatars and pictures, yeah I'd like to see them. <Nag, nag, nag>
It is when oil gets injected into your body, usually a hand. If there is a small pinhole leak, and the oil is coming out under pressure, the velocity is so great that easily penetrates the skin. I have heard of couplings blowing off at high pressure. The hose is like a whip with a 1/2lb or so chunk of metal on the end of it. Needless to say, hospital visits are seldom necessary when this happens.
OK, oil injection. Subcutaneous abscess, necrosis, sloughing, localized (compartment syndrome). If oil works its way into the vascular compartment, embolism directly to the lungs. Is that in the ballpark? Or is there more?
If you want to be treated like a man then start sounding like one. I'm sorry but your thread and your complaint sounds just like a woman. I like to be referred to as a "MALE" nurse. But I think your complaint has a little merit only due to the fact that the more males are in our occupation the more our salaries will increase. A simple fact. Want proof? Check out the salaries of male NP's compared to women. So tell me again, which side is the bias on? Sit back and enjoy being a man.:)
I am an E grade Critical Care Staff Nurse working in the largest Hospital in Wales. However, if I’d listened to my teachers at my high school I would not be doing this.
I was studying for my ‘A’ Levels and was filling in my UCAS form for university. I’d always wanted to be a nurse, indeed my grandmother was a nurse herself so it was no surprise to my family that I wanted to do this.
I was reasonably academic and studying ‘A” level Biology, Chemistry, Geography and Geology and ‘AS’ General Studies (a compulsory subject). I was predicted good grades and applied to the best Universities to undertake the Degree in Nursing - BN(Hons.), according to the informal chats I’d had with admission tutors encouraged me and I felt I had a good chance of getting in. All I had to do was pass my exams and get a good reference from my head of sixth form. I played rugby for my school, I was a British National Figure Skater I was pretty much an all rounder and was respected by my peers and teachers alike.
You can imagine my shock when my name was on the notice board to go and see the head of sixth. She told me, “I’ve reviewed your predicted grades etc. and feel that you can do better than being a nurse, they are only hand maidens, why don’t you do a science degree - or be a doctor. Nursing is not a career for a man. I cannot support this application.”
Without the reference from the head of sixth my UCAS application could not go forward. Therefore, I applied for various Biochemistry degree courses at 6 universities. I was offered places at all and took a place on the Joint Honours Biochemistry and Medical Biochemistry at Cardiff University.
This gave me a B.Med.Sc.(Hons.) and I went on to complete my M.Res. (masters in research) in Haematology. It was at this point I finally applied for my nursing degree. My lectures were surprised that I was going back to be an undergraduate and in nursing, but it was now 2000 and there shock was that I wanted to “start all over again” rather than go on to do a Ph.D.
I went to Swansea and started my nurse education and graduated with high honours. I made some very good friends on the course and in my cohort of 100 there were about 10 men. I only got a couple of remarks about being a man and I was fine with it.
I never say, when I’m asked what I do, I’m a male nurse. I say I’m a Nurse. I am one of 30 nurses whom are male in a unit of 150 nurses. This is a high proportion. I am, however, the only nurse (male and female) that is gay. This doesn’t really enter into my work. We have gay doctors and all my colleagues were surprised that I was gay - I was one of the lads - and it was only when I was met by my boyfriend of 9 years that anyone knew.
I love my job and I am proud to be a nurse. I am very luckly that I have never had to put up with discrimination and being called gay is not a problem for me because it is part of who I am. Though I understand when straight nurses that are male do get upset.
I have been in school for two years earning my A.S. and A.A. degree which I will complete in Fall, 2006. From there, I have been looking at three possible fields in medicine to get into and take the appropriate courses. I have done a LOT of research during the past 3 years into job stability, pay scales, and careers that will actually be something that I can count on. A former Computer Network Engineer of 20 years, I watched as my entire profession and industry was sold out by President Bush, NAFTA, and others to other countries where they could get cheaper labor. *I LOST EVERYTHING*! So, I decided to start my entire life over and go back to college and earn a degree in a field that was stable, Bush-proof, did not depend on a good economy, stock market proof, war or terrorism proof, would not be affected by NAFTA, offered good salaries and opportunities to grow and move forward and up, and that had great flexiability to be in demand whether I lived in a major metropolis or some small town in the middle of nowhere. The three areas that I found were: Medical Doctor, Physician's Assistant, and Nurse. As I continued to evaluate each field in a deeper and more thorough examination, I found that while M.D.'s make the most money, they rarely get to actually take it home with them. (Most of their income gets swallowed up in costs, insurance, and overhead) They also have too much stress, a hard home life, and the demand for doctors is actually NOT as high as the other two professions. In addition, it would take 4-8 years more of education than the other 2 proffessions and at my age, time IS a factor. So now I am looking towards the PA and the Nursing positions. Of the two, Nursing has by a large margin, more flexiability, greater career advancement, and is in more demand. (Although PA's usually make more money until you get to the NP level.) So after three years of all of this evaluating, I am down to one last little issue. I can clearly see that Nursing is the best field in medicine. But I am having a small problem with being called a "Male Nurse". I know I shouldn't. Perhaps it is the stereotypes that are shown on movies like "Meet the Fockers". So, I was searching the internet to see what other names could be used that sound more "manly" than Nurse. That is when I found this website. I have to admit that after reading dozens of posts about this subject, I can see that I was not alone in my thinking...HOWEVER... My view is definately flawed. There is nothing wrong with being male and being called a Nurse. The personal perspectives of many here have helped me to reshape my thinking about the term of "Nurse". As a man, I have learned that I can accept that title and not feel awkward as I thought, despite the historical stigma from society. With this final hangup out of the way, I feel that I can continue on to a MSN degree which is my next step after graduating this Fall. I just wanted to post a "Thank you" to all of you who have enlightened me on this issue. This forum needs to be advertised more! So off I go to become a .... medic... (j/k).... a NURSE! :)
This is a forum/thread to post one's opinions so I will. Everyone has their own opinions which vary. My opinion is that women have had to tolerate gender bias for centuries. Why should men be any different? They know that nursing has been a female profession for years.
Personally, I am from the old school. I am not used to male nurses. It turns my stomach literally. This comment will bother people but my opinion is just as valid as opposing/popular/politically correct responses.
Men have so many sexual issues, detachment issues, not all but generally. Many are coming into the profession for easy money as some women but generally women are nurturers while typically men are not. Look at how many men are deadbeat dads and sex offenders...mostly men if you're honest. Who was the nurse killer in NJ again a man.
I know they are intelligent enough to learn how to be a nurse and perform as a nurse but there are other facets of nursing.
Also, these male nurses are taking jobs away from women. Women are barred or harrassed in so many male professions. Women have had to fight for their rights. Why should men have it so easily - venturing into a female dominated profession. I cringe at the thought of male nurses. There are bad nurses men and women but I would rather work with, be helped by a female nurse over a male nurse anyday.
Pummel me now if you wish but I have the courage to stand by my convictions.
I seriously hope that other "professional" female nurses do not share your short-sighted and critically incorrect points. This has nothing to do with "politically correct" views. Men are not taking nursing positions away from women any more than women are taking IT and computer positions away from men (or in other professions such as Law Enforcement, military, etc.) It is also disturbing that you feel that just because bias towards women in the workplace had existed historically in the past, that it should justify continuing into the future towards men to "make them pay" or "get them back". Any profession should be open to BOTH men and women. That is the trend that society is trying to move towards. Your suggestion only takes us in reverse and causes unneeded animosity in the job market. To say that men are incapable of being nurturers leads me to believe that not only have you never been exposed to men who love their families, their children, and their wives, but perhaps you had a bad experience as a child yourself with your own father. But even if that is true, you cannot make such a broad generalization about all men. I had a terrible mother who knew absolutely nothing about compassion, caring, or even love. Yet, I do not think that all women are incapable of those abilities. You should also check statistics and facts before you make untrue statements about "deadbeat" dads and sexual offenders. Believe me, there are just as many "deadbeat mothers" out there too. You might have heard about some of them who leave their children in garbage cans, lock them in cars and then roll the cars into lakes and rivers, or throw their children off bridges. How many millions of women across the nation leave their children uncared for while they go out to prostitute and feed crack habits? (Just watch a few episodes of COPS) And finally, the sexual offender offense is not closed to women either. Almost every month, the news reports of female teachers who are having sex and even babies with minor-aged boys. However, since female sex offenders are considered differently in our society, they are often not reported as much as male sex offenders (who often are mis-reported by female "victims" really seeking some attention), so there is most lilely a LOT more female sexual assults that go unreported and unacknowledged each year across the country. The point I am making is that your views are very biased and not grounded in fact. There are good men and there are good women. Unfortunately, there are many BAD women just as there are many bad men too. But this has nothing to do with the gender qualifications of a medical position, such as nursing. A nurse's merits should be based on the academic and professional history of that particular person's career, NOT on whether the nurse is male or female. Finally, your "old school" point of view isn't so old afterall. It has only been in the last century that nursing has been a "female dominated" career. Historically, in other countries and in other civilizations, it was either men or both men and women. The trend today to open up nursing to both men and women is not new, it is merely a return to an "older school" of thought that existed previously. You're right about one thing, you are entittled to your own opinion and you can continue to be convicted to it. But opinions can be wrong too. Especially when they are not grounded in fact. A wise person knows that when faced with true factual evidence, a sincere openess to consider and even change their opinion is always an option. I hope that you will make such a choice.
I seriously hope that other "professional" female nurses do not share your short-sighted and critically incorrect points. This has nothing to do with "politically correct" views. Men are not taking nursing positions away from women any more than women are taking IT and computer positions away from men (or in other professions such as Law Enforcement, military, etc.) It is also disturbing that you feel that just because bias towards women in the workplace had existed historically in the past, that it should justify continuing into the future towards men to "make them pay" or "get them back". Any profession should be open to BOTH men and women. That is the trend that society is trying to move towards. Your suggestion only takes us in reverse and causes unneeded animosity in the job market. To say that men are incapable of being nurturers leads me to believe that not only have you never been exposed to men who love their families, their children, and their wives, but perhaps you had a bad experience as a child yourself with your own father. But even if that is true, you cannot make such a broad generalization about all men. I had a terrible mother who knew absolutely nothing about compassion, caring, or even love. Yet, I do not think that all women are incapable of those abilities. You should also check statistics and facts before you make untrue statements about "deadbeat" dads and sexual offenders. Believe me, there are just as many "deadbeat mothers" out there too. You might have heard about some of them who leave their children in garbage cans, lock them in cars and then roll the cars into lakes and rivers, or throw their children off bridges. How many millions of women across the nation leave their children uncared for while they go out to prostitute and feed crack habits? (Just watch a few episodes of COPS) And finally, the sexual offender offense is not closed to women either. Almost every month, the news reports of female teachers who are having sex and even babies with minor-aged boys. However, since female sex offenders are considered differently in our society, they are often not reported as much as male sex offenders (who often are mis-reported by female "victims" really seeking some attention), so there is most lilely a LOT more female sexual assults that go unreported and unacknowledged each year across the country. The point I am making is that your views are very biased and not grounded in fact. There are good men and there are good women. Unfortunately, there are many BAD women just as there are many bad men too. But this has nothing to do with the gender qualifications of a medical position, such as nursing. A nurse's merits should be based on the academic and professional history of that particular person's career, NOT on whether the nurse is male or female. Finally, your "old school" point of view isn't so old afterall. It has only been in the last century that nursing has been a "female dominated" career. Historically, in other countries and in other civilizations, it was either men or both men and women. The trend today to open up nursing to both men and women is not new, it is merely a return to an "older school" of thought that existed previously. You're right about one thing, you are entittled to your own opinion and you can continue to be convicted to it. But opinions can be wrong too. Especially when they are not grounded in fact. A wise person knows that when faced with true factual evidence, a sincere openess to consider and even change their opinion is always an option. I hope that you will make such a choice.
Well said! I've talked to many female nurses about potentially becoming a nurse and they are very welcoming. I hope this bias toward male nurses will not last and hopefully more males will consider a career in nursing as it is a very noble a rewarding career. My two cents.
I started nursing school in 1998, went right into CVICU/ICU nursing and we are the minority as far as head counts, males seen more attracted to the high tech of high acuity nursing. In the years of 1994 to 2005 I've been called a male nurse less than I've been called a doctor. I take no offense to either.I believe that the politics , drama, and backbiting that a male will encounter can be avoided by nurses that happen to be males go into registry nursing as soon as their experience level allows. This way you can search out and experience for yourself the best fit, at a premium wage. My sister has been a nurse for 25years, and they spoke of the nursing shortage even then. And now I hear a new shortage of 800,000 nurses. There will always be a shortage of nurses in that respect. I no longer encourage males or females to go into this profession,true it's been very satisfying knowing you have made a positive difference, but the hoops you are going to have to jump through now and in the future grow. Life is too short.
I expected as much, surprised not more defensive comments. This is a real problem...not allowing a person to have THEIR OWN OPINIONS AND FEELINGS. You want to change or hope I change or hope others dont share my thoughts/feelings.That is shortsided/narrow view and idealistic I might add. YOU want to stifle differing opinions and THAT is dangerous. Everyone is different as is their opinions. ACCEPT THAT! You will not be accepted by everyone, perhaps maybe to your face....
Comments on what you think are my personal experiences...you sure ARE fishing/phishing. It is simply my feelings and thoughts. Why does it bother you so? Get thick skin, do what you do, do it well and maybe, just maybe then and only then will you change people's hearts for the better. Not by the blah, blah, blah, of trying to prove a point. Do you really think I care about your comments? I really dont. Dont bore me with words, do more with positive actions. Live and learn...
I have been a nurse for twelve years and have not encountered any real bias against men in nursing. I had one instructor in school who didn’t like the male students, but she had been married five times and after having been a five time loser she just didn’t like men. It didn’t seem to have anything to do with nursing; she was just a loser as a person and had decided to blame all men for her own problems.
As a nurse I have never really encountered any problems based on gender. I have been one of a few men in some jobs and have ( like now) been the only man on a particular unit. It has never been an issue, however. Most places just need nurses, and so long as you do good work, nobody cares what you look like. I do, occasionally, encounter someone who says “male nurse” but I just ignore it; these are most often the same people who say “woman doctor” and refer to non caucasians being “colored”. They have chosen for their own reasons to prejudge people as groups, and they will ultimately have to deal with the moral implications of their prejudices.
It is not possible to completely avoid ignorant people in any profession. We are fortunate, as nurses, that we work in a profession where simply doing our job can provide such great satisfaction and the opinions of a few ignorant people carries little weight.
I work as a CNA and I recently started nursing school I find it insulting that I thought of as the guy that dose the heavy lifting and thought of as stupid or inferior to my female coworker and fellow students I work as hard as them I pay the same tution as the girls in my classes I deserve to be treated the same any ideas on howto handle profs that are biased against males I have been told document everything and raise **** when nessary any other advise. can be reached at andynine@shol.com
I seriously hope that other "professional" female nurses do not share your short-sighted and critically incorrect points.
I'm a female nurse, too, and I am embarrassed and shamed by the ignorance and intolerance shown by a female posting to this forum. :( Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinions, no matter how lame they may be -- but, thank goodness, this person's prejudiced point of view doesn't infect all of nursing. Gentlemen, I congratulate you all on being pioneers in this field among this generation, and I encourage you to go as far as you can in your careers. Nursing needs you!
The gender bias issue is one that troubles me too. I rarely experience difficulty on the job but when I do, it's usually the patient with the concern for my gender. Ironically, it's usually the 60+ year old male who objects to having a male nurse. For the most part, both men and women whom I've cared for have commented on how pleased they were with the amount of compassion and the quality of care given to them by me, a male nurse. Some have appeared surprised by the caring that a man can show. I work in a critical care unit and you all know how it can be in there for both patients and family members. Regarding the profession of nursing and how it promotes gender bias, I wholeheartedly agree that two of the largest factors are failing to use gender neutral language in it's writings and failing to feature enough men in photographs depicting nurses at work. Those things need to change. For what it's worth, I'm in the camp of wanting a different title. Healthcare Technologist or something like that suits me better. Sorry, I can't shake the aversion to the term even after almost 10 years. I share the strong objection to the absence of things that would interest men in nursing unifrom and equipment catalogs too. Stacey, I will close with a few words to you. You have made a number of decidedly anti-male statements on a message board devoted to men and seem offended that they would object. You say that you don't care what anyone reading your posting thinks but you made your opinion public by posting it. Obviously you intended for others to read it which makes me think you do care especially, since you replied to the objections. Exactly what was your expectation? Did you think that the men here would support your thoughts? You do indeed have a right to your opinion but can't seriously expect anyone here to appreciate it. Why don't you create a thread entitled malebashing and post your thoughts there.
I have to have some sympathy for experienced nurses like Stacy who are skeptical of new nurses and want them to prove their clinical abilities. It's understandable that they would feel uncomfortable for a time before welcoming an untested person to their team. However, there's a point after which people who are subjected to too much scrutiny are basically locked out. People - men and women who are new to a team - need and are entitled to some encouragement.
Combine this with the fact that a certain percentage of women nurses resent men nurses, men nurses have their issues about women, the male docs don't respect women - there's a lot of gender hatred that has to be negotiated on the floor. Is this something which should be accepted or as you suggest encouraged as the starting point?
If I'm working on the floor with you - and I'm a beginner who is a newbie - I want to partner with you and when the day comes that my skills are up there back you up as much as I can. Just because you are my colleague on the floor. That's my desire as a newcomer in the field. Do you really want to put me off those feeling just because I am a man?
By the way, my wife is successful in an area which is traditionally a man's field - you can either say 'well, he's compensating for this,' or 'he understands discrimination - he's seen the job perks his wife has missed out simply because she doesn't have an XY chromosome configuration.' I assure the latter is closer to the truth and the more constructive tack to take.
If another man expressed what you said Stacy and put those words into action in a work environment, I'd report him to HR and make every attempt to have him fired - and I'd do the same to you in a second. My experience on the floor though is that there is a conspiracy of silence and women sometimes get away with subtle forms of harassment: just intentionally misinterpret everything the male nurse says, for example. Their justification is that the person can get another job very quickly, which isn't always true.
jalabee wrote:I have to have some sympathy for experienced nurses like Stacy who are skeptical of new nurses and want them to prove their clinical abilities. It's understandable that they would feel uncomfortable for a time before welcoming an untested person to their team. However, there's a point after which people who are subjected to too much scrutiny are basically locked out. People - men and women who are new to a team - need and are entitled to some encouragement.
Combine this with the fact that a certain percentage of women nurses resent men nurses, men nurses have their issues about women, the male docs don't respect women - there's a lot of gender hatred that has to be negotiated on the floor. Is this something which should be accepted or as you suggest encouraged as the starting point?
If I'm working on the floor with you - and I'm a beginner who is a newbie - I want to partner with you and when the day comes that my skills are up there back you up as much as I can. Just because you are my colleague on the floor. That's my desire as a newcomer in the field. Do you really want to put me off those feeling just because I am a man?
By the way, my wife is successful in an area which is traditionally a man's field - you can either say 'well, he's compensating for this,' or 'he understands discrimination - he's seen the job perks his wife has missed out simply because she doesn't have an XY chromosome configuration.' I assure the latter is closer to the truth and the more constructive tack to take.
If another man expressed what you said Stacy and put those words into action in a work environment, I'd report him to HR and make every attempt to have him fired - and I'd do the same to you in a second. My experience on the floor though is that there is a conspiracy of silence and women sometimes get away with subtle forms of harassment: just intentionally misinterpret everything the male nurse says, for example. Their justification is that the person can get another job very quickly, which isn't always true.
Hi Jalabee,
You and I seem to have a few things in common, both of us are in nursing and both of our wives work in traditional male roles. I think we also agree with how to orient new nurses and help them to develop positive relationships with their coworkers. Your comments about Stacey's actions are right on- report them to HR and seek disciplinary action. I can't see how such comments wouldn't get a person fired. What I think we might view differently is the female viewpoint toward us in the nursing field. I really don't see this silent conspiracy against or worse, outright hatred of men. I do believe it occurs however, maybe in pockets, but I don't see this as a generalized attitude.
1mg.epi wrote:I am a NURSE:
Patients and family members will call me doctor. I say, "No, I Work for a living."
Wife of a patient said, "sorry honey, I guess you thought you were going to get a pretty one." I said, "you calling me ugly. I may be bald, but give me a break."
Red neck asked me once if I was gay. I said, "no, why are you."
I get very sarcastic with bias stupid remarks, made by people who just doent know any better. Dah
I know what you mean. It is kinda like the "Red Neck" label. "Red Necks" are traditionally farmers, and I for one am very proud of my family's farming heritage.
stacyL wrote:This is a forum/thread to post one's opinions so I will. Everyone has their own opinions which vary. My opinion is that women have had to tolerate gender bias for centuries. Why should men be any different? They know that nursing has been a female profession for years.
Personally, I am from the old school. I am not used to male nurses. It turns my stomach literally. This comment will bother people but my opinion is just as valid as opposing/popular/politically correct responses.
Men have so many sexual issues, detachment issues, not all but generally. Many are coming into the profession for easy money as some women but generally women are nurturers while typically men are not. Look at how many men are deadbeat dads and sex offenders...mostly men if you're honest. Who was the nurse killer in NJ again a man.
I know they are intelligent enough to learn how to be a nurse and perform as a nurse but there are other facets of nursing.
Also, these male nurses are taking jobs away from women. Women are barred or harrassed in so many male professions. Women have had to fight for their rights. Why should men have it so easily - venturing into a female dominated profession. I cringe at the thought of male nurses. There are bad nurses men and women but I would rather work with, be helped by a female nurse over a male nurse anyday.
Pummel me now if you wish but I have the courage to stand by my convictions.
stacyL wrote:This is a forum/thread to post one's opinions so I will. Everyone has their own opinions which vary. My opinion is that women have had to tolerate gender bias for centuries. Why should men be any different? They know that nursing has been a female profession for years.
Personally, I am from the old school. I am not used to male nurses. It turns my stomach literally. This comment will bother people but my opinion is just as valid as opposing/popular/politically correct responses.
Men have so many sexual issues, detachment issues, not all but generally. Many are coming into the profession for easy money as some women but generally women are nurturers while typically men are not. Look at how many men are deadbeat dads and sex offenders...mostly men if you're honest. Who was the nurse killer in NJ again a man.
I know they are intelligent enough to learn how to be a nurse and perform as a nurse but there are other facets of nursing.
Also, these male nurses are taking jobs away from women. Women are barred or harrassed in so many male professions. Women have had to fight for their rights. Why should men have it so easily - venturing into a female dominated profession. I cringe at the thought of male nurses. There are bad nurses men and women but I would rather work with, be helped by a female nurse over a male nurse anyday.
Pummel me now if you wish but I have the courage to stand by my convictions.
I realize this is a late reply [8/7/2006]...
IMHO, your opinion is narrow minded, as well as a few other labels that I don't dare post here. I will just say that I being a former single-parent dad [kids now in their mid-20's] of two sons, now a husband of an RN, and someone that dearly loves being a MALE RN that I usually enjoy working with all healthcare professionals, male & female, but you would be the exception.
veritas wrote:I seriously hope that other "professional" female nurses do not share your short-sighted and critically incorrect points.
I'm a female nurse, too, and I am embarrassed and shamed by the ignorance and intolerance shown by a female posting to this forum. :( Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinions, no matter how lame they may be -- but, thank goodness, this person's prejudiced point of view doesn't infect all of nursing. Gentlemen, I congratulate you all on being pioneers in this field among this generation, and I encourage you to go as far as you can in your careers. Nursing needs you!
V
Hey V, thank you for the kinder female perspective. BTW, my wife [also an RN] agrees with you, too!
StacyL, nursing is about teamwork, being open minded, and receptive to all types of beliefs [in both patients & peers]. BTW, some opinions without constructive merit are better left unposted.
Jadranko wrote:I started nursing school in 1998, went right into CVICU/ICU nursing and we are the minority as far as head counts, males seen more attracted to the high tech of high acuity nursing. In the years of 1994 to 2005 I've been called a male nurse less than I've been called a doctor. I take no offense to either.I believe that the politics , drama, and backbiting that a male will encounter can be avoided by nurses that happen to be males go into registry nursing as soon as their experience level allows. This way you can search out and experience for yourself the best fit, at a premium wage. My sister has been a nurse for 25years, and they spoke of the nursing shortage even then. And now I hear a new shortage of 800,000 nurses. There will always be a shortage of nurses in that respect. I no longer encourage males or females to go into this profession,true it's been very satisfying knowing you have made a positive difference, but the hoops you are going to have to jump through now and in the future grow. Life is too short.
I never really had a problem as a civilian Male RN regards to mistreatment based on gender. However, I can post without hesitation that as a Male RN on active duty in the Army Nurse Corps [where males are 34% of RN pop.] respect & equality come easily compared to civilian nursing.
stacyL do you actually believe the comments you posted in your first post to this thread or did you post them because you knew they were so far out in left field that it would stir up a hornet's nest?
You got your hornet's nest I see! But why are you attacking others who don't agree with your very strange opinions? Nobody was refusing to allow you to have those opinions (even though you accused folks of doing exactly that).
You post on a forum for male nurses that seeks to address issues or problems they may encounter with gender bias & basically tell them all to stuff it and you expect any empathy or sympathy to your opinion?
Not only do I personally disagree wholeheartedly with your opinion, but I'll say this.. youre entitled to think whatever you want, but you're not entitled to post in the male nurse's forum with the intent to be disruptive.
Glad I don't work with you. I've taught and worked with male healthcare providers at all levels including RN's (both civilian and military) and wish to heck there were a LOT more of them in our profession!
I think your posts were planned to try to pick fights stacy... and if it happens again I'm going to delete them.. then if you do it again you will be banned.
For now, unless another administrator cares to do things differently, I'm leaving your posts in the hopes other nurses might care to share their appreciation of male nurses too after reading your drivel.
stacyL wrote:I expected as much, surprised not more defensive comments. This is a real problem...not allowing a person to have THEIR OWN OPINIONS AND FEELINGS. You want to change or hope I change or hope others dont share my thoughts/feelings.That is shortsided/narrow view and idealistic I might add. YOU want to stifle differing opinions and THAT is dangerous. Everyone is different as is their opinions. ACCEPT THAT! You will not be accepted by everyone, perhaps maybe to your face....
Comments on what you think are my personal experiences...you sure ARE fishing/phishing. It is simply my feelings and thoughts. Why does it bother you so? Get thick skin, do what you do, do it well and maybe, just maybe then and only then will you change people's hearts for the better. Not by the blah, blah, blah, of trying to prove a point. Do you really think I care about your comments? I really dont. Dont bore me with words, do more with positive actions. Live and learn...
Contriversy brings commment and actually makes life interesting? Outragious statements by stacyL but it does serve to show that such people exist, and highlights the ingrown attitudes that have been against any minority group.
Seems like Male Nurses can certainly count themselves in there.
There will be a time to close off discussion/close off the thread and move on. Maybe now is a time? Leave it in the good hands of medi.
stacyL wrote:This is a forum/thread to post one's opinions so I will. Everyone has their own opinions which vary. My opinion is that women have had to tolerate gender bias for centuries. Why should men be any different? They know that nursing has been a female profession for years.
Personally, I am from the old school. I am not used to male nurses. It turns my stomach literally. This comment will bother people but my opinion is just as valid as opposing/popular/politically correct responses.
Men have so many sexual issues, detachment issues, not all but generally. Many are coming into the profession for easy money as some women but generally women are nurturers while typically men are not. Look at how many men are deadbeat dads and sex offenders...mostly men if you're honest. Who was the nurse killer in NJ again a man.
I know they are intelligent enough to learn how to be a nurse and perform as a nurse but there are other facets of nursing.
Also, these male nurses are taking jobs away from women. Women are barred or harrassed in so many male professions. Women have had to fight for their rights. Why should men have it so easily - venturing into a female dominated profession. I cringe at the thought of male nurses. There are bad nurses men and women but I would rather work with, be helped by a female nurse over a male nurse anyday.
Pummel me now if you wish but I have the courage to stand by my convictions.
Wow. That's probably THE MOST IGNORANT thing I've seen posted on this forum yet.
I could make a 100 stereotypes about females and if I did you would call me a bigot, a male shauvanist pig, etc. etc., yet you do the exact same thing.
You are very simple minded if you believe one ounce of what you posted.
If you can stand another post from a female I'd like to weigh in. Before becoming a nurse I had a lot of different jobs - some traditionally male and some not. I was called many names in the male dominated profession from butch to sweetie to babe. I found that as facing these comments with a sense of humor and performing my job with quiet confidence always won the respect of my co-workers.
As a nurse I have had the opportunity to work with nurses of both genders and I have been preceptor to many guys. Personally I'll work alongside any nurse who knows what they are doing and if they are new and willing to learn I don't have a problem with young inexperienced nurse either. Many of the male nurses I know are more competent than some of the "Old School" hags that trained me. I do have a comment for the guy who complained about not getting to assist in a delivery while in nursing school Get over it. I've done a lot of labor and delivery and most women in that position can barely stand to have a woman touch them much less a man. In terms of catheterization I once had a new nurse (male) fly backwards away from a male patient he was catheterizing because the patient got an erection and he (the nurse) couldn't deal with that. I had the same reaction myself as a new nurse and told him so. we laughed about it later and later I also showed him how to put leads on a female patient with sensitivity to her modesty. It's all in how you do the job.
Nursing is a profession that attracts a lot of people who think they can make money on a two year education. Those of us male and female in the trenches know that our compensation rarely equals the amount of blood sweat and tears we poor into it. We also know that whatever our training RN, BSN, MSN we are all still people. All people have personal agendas some are uplifting to the profession and some are not. I'm proud to be a professional nurse and welcome all people who want to be part of this work we do every day.
PS - I've also found that you have to have a pretty thick skin to be a happy nurse
hppygr8ful wrote:If you can stand another post from a female I'd like to weigh in. Before becoming a nurse I had a lot of different jobs - some traditionally male and some not. I was called many names in the male dominated profession from butch to sweetie to babe. I found that as facing these comments with a sense of humor and performing my job with quiet confidence always won the respect of my co-workers.
As a nurse I have had the opportunity to work with nurses of both genders and I have been preceptor to many guys. Personally I'll work alongside any nurse who knows what they are doing and if they are new and willing to learn I don't have a problem with young inexperienced nurse either. Many of the male nurses I know are more competent than some of the "Old School" hags that trained me. I do have a comment for the guy who complained about not getting to assist in a delivery while in nursing school Get over it. I've done a lot of labor and delivery and most women in that position can barely stand to have a woman touch them much less a man. In terms of catheterization I once had a new nurse (male) fly backwards away from a male patient he was catheterizing because the patient got an erection and he (the nurse) couldn't deal with that. I had the same reaction myself as a new nurse and told him so. we laughed about it later and later I also showed him how to put leads on a female patient with sensitivity to her modesty. It's all in how you do the job.
Nursing is a profession that attracts a lot of people who think they can make money on a two year education. Those of us male and female in the trenches know that our compensation rarely equals the amount of blood sweat and tears we poor into it. We also know that whatever our training RN, BSN, MSN we are all still people. All people have personal agendas some are uplifting to the profession and some are not. I'm proud to be a professional nurse and welcome all people who want to be part of this work we do every day.
PS - I've also found that you have to have a pretty thick skin to be a happy nurse
hppygr8ful wrote:If you can stand another post from a female I'd like to weigh in. Before becoming a nurse I had a lot of different jobs - some traditionally male and some not. I was called many names in the male dominated profession from butch to sweetie to babe. I found that as facing these comments with a sense of humor and performing my job with quiet confidence always won the respect of my co-workers.
As a nurse I have had the opportunity to work with nurses of both genders and I have been preceptor to many guys. Personally I'll work alongside any nurse who knows what they are doing and if they are new and willing to learn I don't have a problem with young inexperienced nurse either. Many of the male nurses I know are more competent than some of the "Old School" hags that trained me. I do have a comment for the guy who complained about not getting to assist in a delivery while in nursing school Get over it. I've done a lot of labor and delivery and most women in that position can barely stand to have a woman touch them much less a man. In terms of catheterization I once had a new nurse (male) fly backwards away from a male patient he was catheterizing because the patient got an erection and he (the nurse) couldn't deal with that. I had the same reaction myself as a new nurse and told him so. we laughed about it later and later I also showed him how to put leads on a female patient with sensitivity to her modesty. It's all in how you do the job.
Nursing is a profession that attracts a lot of people who think they can make money on a two year education. Those of us male and female in the trenches know that our compensation rarely equals the amount of blood sweat and tears we poor into it. We also know that whatever our training RN, BSN, MSN we are all still people. All people have personal agendas some are uplifting to the profession and some are not. I'm proud to be a professional nurse and welcome all people who want to be part of this work we do every day.
PS - I've also found that you have to have a pretty thick skin to be a happy nurse
Hppygr8ful - I look forward to reading all constructive/productive post from my female colleagues. BTW, I'm well trained... since my wife is also an RN, LOL.
Seriously, your posted reply was an enjoyable read!
ok my two cents. I've been in this profession for going on 16 years now, and have seen some changes first hand. I did agency work for the last eleven years,and now do in house "agency" or pool work. I still remember when M.D.'s threw charts across rooms,and cussed you out over the phone. Fortunately those days are growing more,and more distant. Quick point, as far as men taking jobs away from women in this field, it's not happening. If you are qualified enough to get into the program,graduate,and pass boards, and then you find a job, you didn't take anything away from anyone.You earned your right to be there, we all earn our rights to our jobs every day, from our sweat,sometimes blood, and even tears. I've seen nurses,whom by the way were women, could care less about a pt being in pain, or what they needed, same can be said for some doc's,and everyone in the medical field. There will always be apathetic staff, not just nurses. What we as nurses need is to be ONE voice, not male,female, R.N., or LPN. The time has come for "US" as a group to unite,and take care of what we need too, for our sakes,and our pt's. I have to admit when I look @ the scrub catalogs, I do get a little tired of seeing all the stuff for ladies, and one page for us,but you know i've never had any fashion sense anyway.LOL forget gender, we need to take care of each other, brother's and sister's. b/c facility admin is not going to,and neither are our state boards. SO HERE WE ARE, ONE BIG DYSFUNCTIONAL FAMILY. BUT WE ARE FAMILY!!!!!
I really don't get misunderstood as a nurse, I played college football for 4 years I'm retired Army reserve and retired police officer, I have a pony tail at 6'2 260lbs, and it is easily seen that I am the best darn nurse in the ER during my shift, I'm not bragging I'm well trained and my skills and confidence speaks in my actions, do I wear clogs Heck no, but not because I don't like them but because they are barred by my hospitals policy:firedup:
broadnaxyogi wrote:I really don't get misunderstood as a nurse, I played college football for 4 years I'm retired Army reserve and retired police officer, I have a pony tail at 6'2 260lbs, and it is easily seen that I am the best darn nurse in the ER during my shift, I'm not bragging I'm well trained and my skills and confidence speaks in my actions, do I wear clogs Heck no, but not because I don't like them but because they are barred by my hospitals policy:firedup:
Thank you for your military service! I'd imagine that is where your confidence stems. :thumbsup:
I have been a "male" nurse for 14 years. I have decided to take the shock and awe approach to the "male nurse" moniker. This is usually how it goes:
(Usually said by a little old lady or some unenlightened cretin)
What do you do for a living?
Response:
I'm a nurse.
Cretin:
Oh, you're a male Nurse{.?}(Is it a question or statement)
Response:
Yes. I used to be a transvestite nurse, but that wasn't working out so well.
This elicits laughs from most and confusion from many. I get to have a great chuckle. Mind you, being a southerner I do not like to offend pleasant little old ladies and I usually refrain in those cases.
Try it or a variation on the theme. I gua-run-tee you will get a rise and that will be one less person perpetrating that moniker on one of us again.
IndieRN
JB2000 wrote:I have been a "male" nurse for 14 years. I have decided to take the shock and awe approach to the "male nurse" moniker. This is usually how it goes:
(Usually said by a little old lady or some unenlightened cretin)
What do you do for a living?
Response:
I'm a nurse.
Cretin:
Oh, you're a male Nurse{.?}(Is it a question or statement)
Response:
Yes. I used to be a transvestite nurse, but that wasn't working out so well.
This elicits laughs from most and confusion from many. I get to have a great chuckle. Mind you, being a southerner I do not like to offend pleasant little old ladies and I usually refrain in those cases.
Try it or a variation on the theme. I gua-run-tee you will get a rise and that will be one less person perpetrating that moniker on one of us again.
IndieRN
Nope, don't think I'll make that kind of comment in my line of male nursing, LOL.
I'm think I am qualified to put my 2 cents in here. Now when people ask me what I do for a living I proudly say "I'm a Registered Nurse". If they want to know more I amplify and if not that's enough. When I first became a nurse my oldest sister asked me if I had to "wear a dress to work" and how I kept the little white cap on my head. Other family members and friends said stuff like ewwwww, how can you do a foley or touch someones privates or clean people up? Yes, even my own family didn't understand me. I have had a few problems with female nurses over the years but much of that was because I did not try to understand where they were coming from and only wanted them to understand me. I have never had a problem with a doctor. A very few of them will ignore me but never throw anything at me. I have definitely been treated differently by doctors compared to the way they treat female nurses and that is wrong. I have had female patients complain about me treating them but I just get a female nurse to take care of them and don't worry about it. I have had supervisors tell me I am the best worker they have but i'm not sensitive enough. I have had a couple of men say something about my sexual orientation but didn't slap them silly like I wanted to. I have even had male nurses come on to me (why not, i'm a viral, hot looking guy).
My wife told me many times when I was a new nurse that I had a problem excepting being a nurse and working with mostly women but it actually took me about 10 years to settle into the role and fully accept my job and title. I don't want to be called anything else. Medic or health professional. I am a nurse and proud of it.
NavyJim58 wrote:I'm think I am qualified to put my 2 cents in here. Now when people ask me what I do for a living I proudly say "I'm a Registered Nurse". If they want to know more I amplify and if not that's enough. When I first became a nurse my oldest sister asked me if I had to "wear a dress to work" and how I kept the little white cap on my head. Other family members and friends said stuff like ewwwww, how can you do a foley or touch someones privates or clean people up? Yes, even my own family didn't understand me. I have had a few problems with female nurses over the years but much of that was because I did not try to understand where they were coming from and only wanted them to understand me. I have never had a problem with a doctor. A very few of them will ignore me but never throw anything at me. I have definitely been treated differently by doctors compared to the way they treat female nurses and that is wrong. I have had female patients complain about me treating them but I just get a female nurse to take care of them and don't worry about it. I have had supervisors tell me I am the best worker they have but i'm not sensitive enough. I have had a couple of men say something about my sexual orientation but didn't slap them silly like I wanted to. I have even had male nurses come on to me (why not, i'm a viral, hot looking guy).
My wife told me many times when I was a new nurse that I had a problem excepting being a nurse and working with mostly women but it actually took me about 10 years to settle into the role and fully accept my job and title. I don't want to be called anything else. Medic or health professional. I am a nurse and proud of it.
Hello there!
I'm a male nurse have been an lpn for ten,and now a Rn for almost 2 years.I like what I do,cant think of doing anything else,even when I get frustrated with the system.About bias, what can we expect when the poefession is primarely female,there are not many adds in magazines with male nurses,and the clothing industry targets mostly female nurses,and is obvious why is done that way.I just go to work try my best and be a team member willing to do teamwork and the bias issue will disappear,it may not be instant,but it does go away.I have found more bias in the street than in the work environment.see how fast a conversation dies when you share at a party that you are a male nurse.I have to use my commercial diving experience to keep the conversation going.I'm proud of being a male nurse.
virgil rn wrote:Hello there!
I'm a male nurse have been an lpn for ten,and now a Rn for almost 2 years.I like what I do,cant think of doing anything else,even when I get frustrated with the system.About bias, what can we expect when the poefession is primarely female,there are not many adds in magazines with male nurses,and the clothing industry targets mostly female nurses,and is obvious why is done that way.I just go to work try my best and be a team member willing to do teamwork and the bias issue will disappear,it may not be instant,but it does go away.I have found more bias in the street than in the work environment.see how fast a conversation dies when you share at a party that you are a male nurse.I have to use my commercial diving experience to keep the conversation going.I'm proud of being a male nurse.
I like your attitude, Virgil. It's guys like you, easygoing but steadfast that keep men in nursing going strong. Thanks.
virgil rn wrote:Hello there!
I'm a male nurse have been an lpn for ten,and now a Rn for almost 2 years.I like what I do,cant think of doing anything else,even when I get frustrated with the system.About bias, what can we expect when the poefession is primarely female,there are not many adds in magazines with male nurses,and the clothing industry targets mostly female nurses,and is obvious why is done that way.I just go to work try my best and be a team member willing to do teamwork and the bias issue will disappear,it may not be instant,but it does go away.I have found more bias in the street than in the work environment.see how fast a conversation dies when you share at a party that you are a male nurse.I have to use my commercial diving experience to keep the conversation going.I'm proud of being a male nurse.
Hey Virgil RN, good posting......I agree with you about the advertising.....other stuff too....we recently had a big event for nurses day and everything was about the females.......spa day stuff.....I guess guys can participate in spa day but not normally......that and it was not "geared" to males......many times I find in planning males are not considered for events like nurses day and new nurse graduation events.......:luck:
NavyJim58 wrote:Hey Virgil RN, good posting......I agree with you about the advertising.....other stuff too....we recently had a big event for nurses day and everything was about the females.......spa day stuff.....I guess guys can participate in spa day but not normally......that and it was not "geared" to males......many times I find in planning males are not considered for events like nurses day and new nurse graduation events.......:luck:
Good points, Jim about Nurse's Week and graduation ceremonies. We've come a distance at my hospital for Nurse's Week. On Monday, the management team serves three complementary meals during regular hours and a breakfast at midnight for the night shift. On Friday, ice cream sundaes. Additionally, the nurses received a backpack picnic set. Last year it was a folding camp chair. Although there are always negative comments, I think these service oriented ideas and gifts are good. Nothing "pink" there. I didn't attend my graduation ceremony because I lived too far from the school but I think it was more focused on the commencement and diploma. I could've ordered a pin didn't since I wouldn't wear it. Is there even a cap ceremony at all, any more? I haven't heard about that in years. If there is such a thing still happening somewhere, I wonder what is done for the male graduate. What have you seen or heard?
Hey MagRedC5......glad to see your doing ok over there......are you staying out of harm's way?.......the news i'm reading everyday makes me worry about you man......gender bias over there?......you all have to watch each others back.
Ricu, I just attended a pin-ing ceremony on Friday. 85 new RN's graduating from nursing school. No old white cap's in sight. 9 males in the graduating class.
yes, we got the ice cream sunday freebie's also and gifts like umbrella's and jackets and hats and stuff. It's nice of the hospital. The Spa day went over real well with the female nurses and I would recommend they do it again next year. This hospital has less in fighting and more getting along than any place I have worked. Or maybe i'm just easier to get along with now. :39:
I have never really experienced any gender bias. BUT, male docs tend to listen to me more and follow my suggestions more often than my female counterparts.
But if a male doc gets angry with me or he angers me I get over it pretty quickly. My female counterparts tend to drag it on and on and become passive aggressive and talk and talk about it with their peers.
That's a good point TomB....women do seem to hold "grudges"......they seem to take a long time to get over some slight........some men do also but those tend to be the more feminine type men. :39:
It will be pretty hard for us men to make a case in favor of label free professionalism in the field of nursing if we keep shooting ourselves in the foot with our own stereotyping statements. Wouldn't it be better to promote and to model the behavior we would like to see?
Yes it would, but unfortunately there are personality differences between the genders that isn't going away anytime soon. We have to deal with that too. In a perfect world male and female nurses would be the same and there would be no bias. Unfortunately this is not a prefect world.
Instead of trying to make everyone the same we need to learn how to work together. It will require changes on the female and the male sides of the issues.
If I get into an argument with a male colleague, it may be intense, but it's forgotten in short order. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen with the majority of my female colleagues.
Just the facts, man. Sorry if I've offended anyone, but that's the way I see it.
Let me play the devil's advocate for a minute- just for kicks. My own experiences have led me to make the following conclusions. I'm a guy and have also experienced the same things that others have written about here. There are male docs who walk across the unit to talk to me first and I've worked with plenty of bubble-headed women. I'm not sure that these traits can be attributed to women alone or even to a majority of them. Men can be scatterbrained, gossip and hold grudges just as well. Maybe it's growing up and living in a metropolitan area but in the workplace, I see men and women largely behaving the same way; demonstrating very similar characteristics. We know that sex hormones can impact behavior and that there are physiological differences in male and female brain chemistry however, I think there is more in common than a lot of us believe and that the differences we see in behavior are more due to socialization than neurotransmitter function. While there are psychological things that will never be completely understood, we are taught behavior and this instruction has a definite impact on how we conduct ourselves. For example, it's more okay for boys to be angry and act out than girls, girls can cry but boys shouldn't, and so on. There seems to be an evolution taking place in this understanding for which I'm grateful because I think will be liberating to us all.
Ricu wrote:Let me play the devil's advocate for a minute- just for kicks. My own experiences have led me to make the following conclusions. I'm a guy and have also experienced the same things that others have written about here. There are male docs who walk across the unit to talk to me first and I've worked with plenty of bubble-headed women. I'm not sure that these traits can be attributed to women alone or even to a majority of them. Men can be scatterbrained, gossip and hold grudges just as well. Maybe it's growing up and living in a metropolitan area but in the workplace, I see men and women largely behaving the same way; demonstrating very similar characteristics. We know that sex hormones can impact behavior and that there are physiological differences in male and female brain chemistry however, I think there is more in common than a lot of us believe and that the differences we see in behavior are more due to socialization than neurotransmitter function. While there are psychological things that will never be completely understood, we are taught behavior and this instruction has a definite impact on how we conduct ourselves. For example, it's more okay for boys to be angry and act out than girls, girls can cry but boys shouldn't, and so on. There seems to be an evolution taking place in this understanding for which I'm grateful because I think will be liberating to us all.
R
"I see men and women largely behaving the same way"
Men and women largely behaving the same?...this argument doesn't hold water......have your ever read Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars?......Women are very different from men....they don't think the same and they don't act the same......when I work with women and supervise women in nursing I have to take that into account.....I treat women differently than men in some ways.....you have to.....otherwise your going to have a problem on your hands and maybe a sexual harrasment charge against you. I work with great female nurses but I'm very careful about what I do and say around them. Not so the men.
NavyJim58 wrote:"I see men and women largely behaving the same way"
Men and women largely behaving the same?...this argument doesn't hold water......have your ever read Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars?......Women are very different from men....they don't think the same and they don't act the same......when I work with women and supervise women in nursing I have to take that into account.....I treat women differently than men in some ways.....you have to.....otherwise your going to have a problem on your hands and maybe a sexual harrasment charge against you. I work with great female nurses but I'm very careful about what I do and say around them. Not so the men.
I believe I made the difference between "being the same" and "behaving the same" and specifically indicating that this behavior was observed in the workplace and not outside. There is a professional decorum being alluded to here. When working with my colleagues of both sexes, I don't change my glasses to male or female. Because I treat them in the same professional manner, I will never have to worry about a sexual harrassment lawsuit. Were I to set two standards, I might then have reason to worry. When I was an administrator, I used the same philosophy then and my employees appreciated my impartiality. My wife is in senior management and views behavior the same way. No double standard. Outside of the workplace and with friends and family, things are different for all of us. I think you and I will always view this issue differently, Jim. Can we agree to disagree?
Ricu wrote:I believe I made the difference between "being the same" and "behaving the same" and specifically indicating that this behavior was observed in the workplace and not outside. There is a professional decorum being alluded to here. When working with my colleagues of both sexes, I don't change my glasses to male or female. Because I treat them in the same professional manner, I will never have to worry about a sexual harrassment lawsuit. Were I to set two standards, I might then have reason to worry. When I was an administrator, I used the same philosophy then and my employees appreciated my impartiality. My wife is in senior management and views behavior the same way. No double standard. Outside of the workplace and with friends and family, things are different for all of us. I think you and I will always view this issue differently, Jim. Can we agree to disagree?
Of course, i'm not hard to get along with.....as you might have guessed I have had a personal issue with a female colleage that colors my thinking. But I know several others it has happened to also.
NavyJim58 wrote:Of course, i'm not hard to get along with.....as you might have guessed I have had a personal issue with a female colleage that colors my thinking. But I know several others it has happened to also.
Hey Jim,
I figured we could see past our differences and I'm glad. Sorry to hear about the clash with the female colleague. Hope it doesn't follow you around. As you inferred, it's not a unique situation. I'm sure that wherever men and women work together, there will be waves.
NavyJim58 wrote:Hey MagRedC5......glad to see your doing ok over there......are you staying out of harm's way?.......the news i'm reading everyday makes me worry about you man......gender bias over there?......you all have to watch each others back.
Ricu, I just attended a pin-ing ceremony on Friday. 85 new RN's graduating from nursing school. No old white cap's in sight. 9 males in the graduating class.
yes, we got the ice cream sunday freebie's also and gifts like umbrella's and jackets and hats and stuff. It's nice of the hospital. The Spa day went over real well with the female nurses and I would recommend they do it again next year. This hospital has less in fighting and more getting along than any place I have worked. Or maybe i'm just easier to get along with now. :39:
NavyJim58,
We have been attacked by mortars three times, but no one was hurt. Plus, a convoy did not make it to our Camp yesterday, but I don't have the details. [Nor, D/T OPSEC could I give any info. ;)] Also, heard one of our mail trucks was hijacked.. so that is why I have not received mail lately, LOL!
BTW, I'll have my own little pin-ing ceremony next month. The Army Nurse Corps Captain promotion list came out last week and I'm sequence #6, which means I'll be promoted some time next month. :)
NavyJim58 wrote:"I see men and women largely behaving the same way"
Men and women largely behaving the same?...this argument doesn't hold water......have your ever read Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars?......Women are very different from men....they don't think the same and they don't act the same......when I work with women and supervise women in nursing I have to take that into account.....I treat women differently than men in some ways.....you have to.....otherwise your going to have a problem on your hands and maybe a sexual harrasment charge against you. I work with great female nurses but I'm very careful about what I do and say around them. Not so the men.
In retrospect, I wish more female nuring supervisors realized that men & women nurses think differently, which would alleviate a few communication problems, IMHO. However, in my nursing world I find the female supervisors try to act like men... must be the military uniform, LOL. Actually, it helps that in the Army Nurse Corps roughly 33% of the RNs are males. Plus, I'm often the Charge Nurse of our little ICU.
Sexual harrasment charge? I'm so tired of all the mandatory in-service training on sexual harrassment I've had to attend since being deployed. LOL, in this environment it is very easy for me to stay faithful to my wife. Not that I would ever be unfaithful to my wife, but certainly not here in the freak'n Sandbox.
We have been attacked by mortars three times, but no one was hurt. Plus, a convoy did not make it to our Camp yesterday, but I don't have the details. [Nor, D/T OPSEC could I give any info. ;)] Also, heard one of our mail trucks was hijacked.. so that is why I have not received mail lately, LOL!
BTW, I'll have my own little pin-ing ceremony next month. The Army Nurse Corps Captain promotion list came out last week and I'm sequence #6, which means I'll be promoted some time next month. :)
Wow!! Mortared times 3......keep your pot on......lost convoy and mail truck?.......sounds like your in the "thick" of it.....
Congratulations Captain.....good you don't have to wait long to pin it on.
Quick story.....my wife was an Army Captain in Hawaii when we were dating. I got us on a Navy flight to San Francisco for the weekend. We land near San Francisco and a staff car is waiting at the bottom of the ladder. they thought she was a Navy Captain! We got VIP treatment both coming and going back. was great. Keep safe, Jim
MagRedC5 wrote:In retrospect, I wish more female nuring supervisors realized that men & women nurses think differently, which would alleviate a few communication problems, IMHO. However, in my nursing world I find the female supervisors try to act like men... must be the military uniform, LOL. Actually, it helps that in the Army Nurse Corps roughly 33% of the RNs are males. Plus, I'm often the Charge Nurse of our little ICU.
Sexual harrasment charge? I'm so tired of all the mandatory in-service training on sexual harrassment I've had to attend since being deployed. LOL, in this environment it is very easy for me to stay faithful to my wife. Not that I would ever be unfaithful to my wife, but certainly not here in the freak'n Sandbox.
Later...
I don't want to "beat a dead horse"....i'll just say that you have to be careful because the way Sexual Harrasment charges are dealt with are unfair......the charge is enough....they don't have to show real proof.....the EOC usually comes back and says they can't verify the charge but it could still be true.....The PC boss wants to cover his/her butt so they screw you anyway.....got to be careful......
I have seen several good people get screwed over this way...
NavyJim58 wrote:Wow!! Mortared times 3......keep your pot on......lost convoy and mail truck?.......sounds like your in the "thick" of it.....
Congratulations Captain.....good you don't have to wait long to pin it on.
Quick story.....my wife was an Army Captain in Hawaii when we were dating. I got us on a Navy flight to San Francisco for the weekend. We land near San Francisco and a staff car is waiting at the bottom of the ladder. they thought she was a Navy Captain! We got VIP treatment both coming and going back. was great. Keep safe, Jim
Thanks for the congrats!
It does get a little confusing with the Navy rank terminology. Even though I'm prior service Marine, the USMC & Army rank terminolgy is far more similar than compared to the Navy. I always thought the term Petty Officer to be an odd enlisted rank... small & insignificant ;)
BTW, seriously doubt I'll get the same VIP treatment, even if our FOB Commander is a Navy 0-6, LOL.
NavyJim58 wrote:I don't want to "beat a dead horse"....i'll just say that you have to be careful because the way Sexual Harrasment charges are dealt with are unfair......the charge is enough....they don't have to show real proof.....the EOC usually comes back and says they can't verify the charge but it could still be true.....The PC boss wants to cover his/her butt so they screw you anyway.....got to be careful......
I have seen several good people get screwed over this way...
When's the wetting down party? take care, Jim
The only wetting down around here [no alcohol consumption allowed in Iraq... at least on our FOB] is the +1/4 mile walk from our tent to the DFAC. The wet being sweat with +120 degree temps, especially with IBA [Individual Body Armor Vest], and Kevlar, etc.
I'll let ya'll know when I get officially pinned [velcro'd, LOL].
MagRedC5 wrote:The only wetting down around here [no alcohol consumption allowed in Iraq... at least on our FOB] is the +1/4 mile walk from our tent to the DFAC. The wet being sweat with +120 degree temps, especially with IBA [Individual Body Armor Vest], and Kevlar, etc.
I'll let ya'll know when I get officially pinned [velcro'd, LOL].
A few years back I sent in a resume to company based in the middle-east (the corporate office was in Canada) that was recruting nurses.
I got a letter back stating that the company does not accept men as nurses.
The original ad was in the 'official journal of the ANA', you know the one that is supposed to support and promote professionalism in nursing?
I sent my rejection letter to the Editor to let them know that they were accepting advertising from a company that was practicing gender discrimination.
I got a busque note back from the ANA Journal Editor that basically said: "We do not care about discrimination by our advertisers."
Hmmm, run it this way: What if I was Africian American (or chinese, or Japanese or anything else), got rejected by an advertiser because of my race and the Editor of the official ANA magaznine replied that: "We do not care if our advertisers discriminate against blacks"?
Sounds different doesn't it? Sure didn't feel different.
A few years back I sent in a resume to company based in the middle-east (the corporate office was in Canada) that was recruting nurses.
I got a letter back stating that the company does not accept men as nurses.
The original ad was in the 'official journal of the ANA', you know the one that is supposed to support and promote professionalism in nursing?
I sent my rejection letter to the Editor to let them know that they were accepting advertising from a company that was practicing gender discrimination.
I got a busque note back from the ANA Journal Editor that basically said: "We do not care about discrimination by our advertisers."
Hmmm, run it this way: What if I was Africian American (or chinese, or Japanese or anything else), got rejected by an advertiser because of my race and the Editor of the official ANA magaznine replied that: "We do not care if our advertisers discriminate against blacks"?
Sounds different doesn't it? Sure didn't feel different.
It sounds discriminatory to me no matter how you cut it.
:hung: CUT??? Sounds like he got sliced and diced to me, then to add insult to injury the ANA put him in a blender bypassed puret and went for liquify.
and then:yikes::peeing: And here I thought they were on our side. :frustrated:
I truely feel your pain my friend we seem to be the only ones left they can slap around without getting into a world of hurt.:39:
The biggots are always going to find a new target. SO here is a new one for them:grits:get the point?
I've been reading many of these posts and have found them very interesting as they are directly related to a new study I'm coordinating.
I recently posted a new thread on this, but thought it couldn't hurt to share the link below on this thread that is so directly related to the things I'm measuring.
The study will take no longer than 10-15 minutes of your time. As noted in the consent form, the project has been approved by the IRB (Institutional Review Board) of the University of Texas at Austin.
If there is any concern or question about the legitimacy of this study (or me personally), feel free to send me an e-mail at aaron.rochlen@mail.utexas.edu or review my wesite at:
It is never going to go away totally people. I was a lady Marine for awhile out of highschool, and I got tired of being called a lady Marine, rather than a Marine like the rest of the "guys". I am also an LPN, and I get this all the time "oh, you're and LPN?"....as if I am not a nurse. So it exists in other areas as well. Just hang in there, and think of it as a moment of pride and dignity when someone actually notices or comments....be realistic...it isn't going away...I wish it would too. I support all of you fellow nurses in an rewarding field...perhaps you all are the stepping stones for future nurses.
ruby43 wrote:It is never going to go away totally people. I was a lady Marine for awhile out of highschool, and I got tired of being called a lady Marine, rather than a Marine like the rest of the "guys". I am also an LPN, and I get this all the time "oh, you're and LPN?"....as if I am not a nurse. So it exists in other areas as well. Just hang in there, and think of it as a moment of pride and dignity when someone actually notices or comments....be realistic...it isn't going away...I wish it would too. I support all of you fellow nurses in an rewarding field...perhaps you all are the stepping stones for future nurses.
I was active duty USMC 1980-1988. We called the female Marines "WM's".
Hey Soldier Nurse....."capt" now.....congratulations......I had to change my moniker also.....was NavyJim58.......I remember when my Army nurse wife was a captain......we flew on a navy plane from Hawaii to San Franciso and the navy met us with a staff car when we go there because they thought she was a navy capt......pretty sweet......the driver didn't care......how long before your up for major? take care, Jim
FloridaMaleNurse wrote:Hey Soldier Nurse....."capt" now.....congratulations......I had to change my moniker also.....was NavyJim58.......I remember when my Army nurse wife was a captain......we flew on a navy plane from Hawaii to San Franciso and the navy met us with a staff car when we go there because they thought she was a navy capt......pretty sweet......the driver didn't care......how long before your up for major? take care, Jim
NavyJim58... now I remember you. Why did you change your username? Just curious but I did the same. I sold my '01 Vette but accepted a two year PCS assignment. So, I decided on SoldierNurse for a new username here.
I believe the ANC MAJ mark is btwn 3-5 yrs after CPT. So, that would make me eligible [under the zone] MAY 2010.
Soldier Nurse.....I was off the forum for several months and when I got back on I couldn't remember my pass word or the email address I had used so got a new one......i'm getting older and confused alot......so you won't have to go back overseas anytime soon will you? take care, Jim
hey guys my name is max. my teacher assigned a research paper, we are supposed to argue some topic, no matter what our standings are on this and my topic is "stereotypes againts male nurses" and since my uncle is a nurse i definately see no differance between men and women in the feild of nursing. however, i am suposed to have another persons quote or arguement to support my own. my due date is dec 18,if anybody has anything to quote please email me. like i said i'm on your side and am getting tired of all these d*** insults on ya'll as it insults me to im personaly thinking about going into the nursing feild myself
please respond,
max:)
1 I do not believe gender bias exists. Unless you are overly sensitive. Which I am not. It interferes with my golf. I can not have that. So my answer here is do not worry about gender bias, Go Golfing instead, ehh.
In the USA, in general, and in nursing, in particular, if a male does not loudly and publicly proclaim the following Orwellian, authoritarian, illogical, sexist, oppressive, and discriminatory mantra, a male (inclusive of male nurses and male nursing students) will be subject to discrimination not only because of his gender and possibly race but, also, because of his perceived political ideals: "Men, especially Caucasian men, are not discriminated against. Therefore, they do not need laws nor the promulgation of laws protecting them from discrimination in employment and education. Women (and minorities) are discriminated against. Therefore, laws should be promulgated that give the same preferential treatment in employment and education over Caucasian males."
"No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which." George Orwell, the conclusion of “Animal Farm.”
:nurse-haha:
Interesting discussion going on here. I agree that self image plays heavily in how well a man functions as a nurse but I don't think loud proclamations or legislation will further the cause. In fact, I think such activity sets us guys back. Men have gotten this far in the field not by force but by quiet, confident, positive rolemodeling.
Over the years, gender bias against male nurses has diminished but it really was a problem when I started in the field. I think this change occurred because society has discovered that traits which were once thought of as male or female really have more to do with individual nature rather than gender. Even though this mainstream thinking has changed, some of us still get stuck or remain stuck but this does seem to happen less often.
My opinion is that if a male is sensitive, intuitive, caring and nurturing, he is indeed, evolved. If he can be all that and not feel as though his masculinity is diminished or that he has to justify or defend his mannerisms, he would make an excellent nurse.
The only gender bias I have seen in my time is what constitutes harassment. The female staff call each other names that would get me called into the office. They touch each other where I would get into trouble if I even tried to do. My manager only tells me to report harassment if they do or say something that makes me uncomfortable. I'm sorry I can't do that. I don't say anything, if they start saying something I get up and leave and say , "this is getting to much for me to hear ." I would only advise male staff to be careful. Say sexually oriented things to only those you have a good relationship. That is they should say those things to you first and they say you can say anything to me if you want. I am just a fellow employee I am not a close friend to anyone. Don't make the mistake of thinking you are equal.
With regard to the Orwellian "New Sexual Puritanism","Sexual Harassment laws", and gender discrimination, while I was a combat soldier in the field in Vietnam, years before the aforementioned, we were very tolerant of individual personal and physical insult, using profanity very profusely (termed "Booney Talk"), getting into physical fights occasionally, laughing, screaming, lots of emotion, lot's of trust, lots of courage, lot's of individuality, and lot's of friendship! This is the antithesis of the feminine nursing environment in which all of the masculine traits present in a very masculine combat environment are clearly not tolerated by law and custom. Unfortunately, the same intolerance indicates that courage, humanity, tolerance itself, true friendship, and true equality are not tolerated in the female nursing environment in the name of Orwellian political correctness. This same Orwellian feminine environment tends to produce Orwellian pigs without a sense of self respect, courage, and respect for the rights of others. The decline of nursing as a profession has been, in part, resulted from the same. I am a male R.N. One must adopt the masculine combat culture to stand up for individual rights and the rights of the nursing profession as the same requires tolerance, courage, individuality, and respect for the rights of others (including patients).
LIFE is short, and Art long; the crisis fleeting; experience perilous, and decision difficult. The physician must not only be prepared to do what is right himself, but also to make the patient, the attendants, and externals cooperate. Hippocrates
:nurse-soapbox:
scarecrow wrote:The only gender bias I have seen in my time is what constitutes harassment. The female staff call each other names that would get me called into the office. They touch each other where I would get into trouble if I even tried to do. My manager only tells me to report harassment if they do or say something that makes me uncomfortable. I'm sorry I can't do that. I don't say anything, if they start saying something I get up and leave and say , "this is getting to much for me to hear ." I would only advise male staff to be careful. Say sexually oriented things to only those you have a good relationship. That is they should say those things to you first and they say you can say anything to me if you want. I am just a fellow employee I am not a close friend to anyone. Don't make the mistake of thinking you are equal.
I only talk about golf and grandchildren so I do not ever see any problems. I am also happily married and would never discuss anything sexual with anyone, nor am I toucher, In fact I do not like even being touched. It is an invasion of my space. one nurse I work with and like is a hugger, she as learned not to hug me anymore, she just pats me on the shoulder briefly, which satisfies her and does not bothr me that much. Give and Take.
In German the word for nurse is "Krankenpfleger", which literally means "caretaker of the sick" in english but refers to "nurse" in our language. The word "Nurse" in English may bring to mind certain terms as "breast feeding" or something feminine like that. That is simply what our language calls someone who takes care of the sick. I am male and work as a nurse in a very busy teaching hospital in Madison, Wisconsin. There are many male nurses who work on our floor. In our part of the country male nurses are looked up to and respected. In other parts of the country though, I don't think male nurses experience such regard or respect so much which is unfortunate. Don't ever be ashamed to be a male in the nursing profession! As a nurse you can really bless a lot of people's lives.
As a female nurse student, I have become rather lucky in getting 9 awesome fellow male students in my class with me. These guys I would trust to get the job done in any situation. 4 of them are military one a single dad another a retired firefighter! These are MEN, and I'm happy to see that so many more are choosing to go into this profession. I agree with you guys, a nurse is a nurse male or female, we do the same thing and no bias should ever be expressed.
Now if we could get more male nursing instructors!
Over the last 3-5 years I think I've seen a big movement toward acceptance of men in the field. Interesting point about male nursing instructors. I would like to see them too, even clinical affiliate faculty members which is something I do. Very often the student feedback includes comments about working with their first male instructor and that it was a positive experience. Frankly Laura, I think the abysmal pay scale has a lot to do with the lack of nursing instructors period; male or female.
stacyL wrote:This is a forum/thread to post one's opinions so I will. Everyone has their own opinions which vary. My opinion is that women have had to tolerate gender bias for centuries. Why should men be any different? They know that nursing has been a female profession for years.
I see your point, female doctors, attorneys and other professionals have been fighting for equality for quite some time. Traditionally male roles have been opened and continue to be opened for women to enter into.
In the same fashion that traditionally male careers have had to change to accept women, so must Nursing change to accept men. It is in fact, inevitable that more men will be entering the nursing work force.
We have the same right to become nurses as females have to become doctors, attorneys, architects and other traditionally male roles.
You by no means need to like it, but you do have to deal with it.
stacyL wrote:Also, these male nurses are taking jobs away from women. Women are barred or harrassed in so many male professions. Women have had to fight for their rights. Why should men have it so easily - venturing into a female dominated profession. I cringe at the thought of male nurses. There are bad nurses men and women but I would rather work with, be helped by a female nurse over a male nurse anyday.
I think the jobs should go to the best person, male or female. So if male applicants happen to look better to employers, it isn't a matter of men taking jobs away from females. Same difference if a woman is looking to apply to Medical School, etc. It is up to the school to decide who to accept.
I'm at work to do a job, take care of my patients as best I can. Being a male/female shouldn't factor into it as long as I carry my weight.
stacyL wrote:This is a forum/thread to post one's opinions so I will. Everyone has their own opinions which vary. My opinion is that women have had to tolerate gender bias for centuries. Why should men be any different? They know that nursing has been a female profession for years.
Personally, I am from the old school. I am not used to male nurses. It turns my stomach literally. This comment will bother people but my opinion is just as valid as opposing/popular/politically correct responses.
Men have so many sexual issues, detachment issues, not all but generally. Many are coming into the profession for easy money as some women but generally women are nurturers while typically men are not. Look at how many men are deadbeat dads and sex offenders...mostly men if you're honest. Who was the nurse killer in NJ again a man.
I know they are intelligent enough to learn how to be a nurse and perform as a nurse but there are other facets of nursing.
Also, these male nurses are taking jobs away from women. Women are barred or harrassed in so many male professions. Women have had to fight for their rights. Why should men have it so easily - venturing into a female dominated profession. I cringe at the thought of male nurses. There are bad nurses men and women but I would rather work with, be helped by a female nurse over a male nurse anyday.
Pummel me now if you wish but I have the courage to stand by my convictions.
JAN 2006 is when the above was posted. In fact, stacyL has not posted on this site since JAN 2006. So much for her courage to stand by her convictions. Who chased her off the site, anyway? THANK YOU!!!
Since this was posted over four years ago I will waste no further time here.
SoldierNurse wrote:JAN 2006 is when the above was posted. In fact, stacyL has not posted on this site since JAN 2006. So much for her courage to stand by her convictions. Who chased her off the site, anyway? THANK YOU!!!
Since this was posted over four years ago I will waste no further time here.
Ah, hell! Just when it was getting good! :nurse-rofl:
regarding Stacy's post: If men can do as good a job or better in the field as women can, than they should do it. She's not old school. She's an old fool.
On a lighter note. my class had NSNA elections this past week. Two positions went to guys. If that inspires you guys at all. My class has 56 students and only 9 of them are male.....
Laura, that's awesome that the guys got elected! FYI, I remember reading where the 'original' nurses were men, esp. during the Crusades. etc. I do believe there is a post to that effect somewhere......
LauraP wrote:regarding Stacy's post: If men can do as good a job or better in the field as women can, than they should do it. She's not old school. She's an old fool.
On a lighter note. my class had NSNA elections this past week. Two positions went to guys. If that inspires you guys at all. My class has 56 students and only 9 of them are male.....
Thanks LauraP, that brought a smile to my face... "she's an old fool".
Congrats to your male classmates on the newly elected NSNA positions.
I would advise all individuals, regardless of gender, to leave nursing if they are already in the same and to advise everyone else not to enter nursing. Why? The health care industry, with the assistance of the US Federal government, has utilized both overt and covert means to maintain poor working conditions, poor job security, and poor pay for nurses. Such means include the wide spread utilization of foreign born nurses through H1B and other programs and other employment practices. This hostile, oppressive, and conspiratorial attitude by the health care industry towards nurses is, of course, responsible for the "nursing shortage." It represents an elitist, oppressive, and selfish attitude by the health care industry that has not only manifested itself against nurses but also against other health care professionals and the American public. The current debate over health care has brought to the front the political power, the monopolistic character of, and the Machiavellian attitude of the health care industry. As long as the aforementioned has not been addressed by appropriate legislation nurses will be regarded as dispensable tools by the health care industry and not professionals worthy of respect, a rewarding career, and professional development.
I have, in prior posts, addressed my concerns with regard to men in nursing. I am somewhat gratified by the fact that the percentage of men in nursing is increasing.
Hello Hippocrates, and this differs from the attitude of any other fortune 500 company (typically obsessed with shareholders profits and the bottom line) how?
Hate to say it but we're in the same boat as any other employees at the mercy of greedy employers.
The difference more men MAY make, is that they'll be more aggressive in fighting for unions and better working conditions.
In the current economic climate, unions are not faring well. It is definitely an employer's market.
Its sad that it is even necessary to bring up this topic, but something that might be related personality types, How do co-workers of different personality types show respect to each and get along? In todays world,I just can't make a correlation between gender and personality type.
Hi Nursing Humor
I agree with you, why do you think it is that employers have so much power over us in this present healthcare system? I am pondering this, are unions really the answer? How many success stories are you aware of?
I see this a little differently I guess. I do not see Gender as an issue. I do not believe that employers have that much power over us. I also certainly do not believe in empowering unions to have power over us. I believe in empowering myself through my actions, my behavior, my beliefs. I have done well in this field one way or another since I was a Corpsman way back when. Now I have been an RN for over 3 decades. I have raised all 7 of my children. So I guess I am a success at this.
. 
I am a nurse... not a male nurse, I am a NURSE !!!
Yes, they just don't know any better... so, rather than getting sarcastic with bias stupid remarks made by others just be yourself, a proud male nurse. This way your example will spread like wild fire to the ignorant masses that nurses can be heterosexual males, and better yet that all nurses are nurses. 
My sentiments exactly! 
That mentality is exactly what keeps the nursing profession from being non-gender bias.