Finally, an article that takes aim at the gender biased stereotype most commonly attributed to men in nursing! I read this & thought you guys might appreciate reading it & sharing it: http://medi-smart.com/topnews10.htm
Loved the article, thanks...been a male AND nurse for over 25 years...the only barrier I see for some men is the name, "Nurse"...which has def. gender bias....I think?
LOL
That's an interesting point Randy.. and I agree, the title does carry a gender bias. Here's an excercise for all you guys to get in on:
If we all could rename "Nursing" what new title could best describe ourselves, portray an image of professionalism within the medical community, and do away with the gender bias the name "Nurse" has come to portray??
I doent think nursing should not be renamed. I have been a male nurse for 12 years and I have great pride in my profession. The term nurse has great connotations. In time the ignorance of gender bias will dissipate for all professions and both sexes. I am sure their will be a few people left that will need a whack up side the head to change.
This was a discussion I was in today. No matter even if 60% of all nurses were men, the word itself, nurse, is so feminine anchored. Actresses have become just actors, firemen have become firefighters, policemen are now police officers, but how can the word nurse really become gender neutral, when it particularly describes a female genetic function, as in nursing babies, when the film industry of past has built a large inventory of old fashioned white has nurse movies--that image is just a step away from that of a nun in some instances, not to mention, the porn industry is still cranking out white hat and white skirted nurses in all sorts of dirty nurse roles. It's all in the word.
What would nursing lose, if tomorrow there were Registered Healthcare Process Adminitrators and Licensed Healthcare Process Adminitrators, instead of today's titles of RN and LPN? Nothing, there would only be gains. And these job titles would still represent people working in the field of nursing. It's not just some guys who work as patient care techs, but won't work in a nursing home because--same job--they don't want to be called a nurse assistant. That's what, somebody who fetches the coffee grounds so nurse can make a cup of coffee for doctor?
Think of restaurants were a mixed waiting staff or all female staff are bascially practicing waitressing, coffee shops and casual diners tossing baskets and platters at people, and then think of where mixed staffs are practicing waiting, blacks pants and white tops, fine dining formal waiting, both male and female, but who is making more and who looks more professional? A lot of those same PCT guys will advance, but to some other tech position, avoiding the job title "nurse" in all ways. But they are working in the nursing field, just the same.
What is so prized about keeping such a gender connotated word in the job titles, when every other profession, if they didn't already have a gender neutral title, have now adopted them? As more women have become doctors, the word itself less and less conjures up an image of a male, although even the word "chairperson" might conjure up the image of a male more if were are talking about the chairperson of the defense procurement committee, and more a female image if we are talking about the chairperson of the PTA or school board. But it still isn't gender specific, which the word nurse, as long as women nurse babies and the bible speaks of nursemaids, will be.
Registered Healthcare Process Adminitrators, todays RN's if you must, are not doctor's assistants, they might work in a hospital fulltime, while some doctors might only drop by if and when they have a patient in the hospital. In that setting, they serve doctors and patients as customers, in other roles, they supervise things, perhaps determining what E.R. admissions will be shuffled off to which O.R.'s for various doctors to do their job. In a nursing home, it's mainly nursing, and if people need serious medical attention, we ship them out to a hospital, and if and when they return fixed and repaired, we continue the day to day job of nursing, assiting people to live, enjoy and thrive, or just survive, in their day to day lives.
Why hold the profession back, by insisting that the gender biased word "nurse" remain in job titles? PCT's work in the nursing field just as much, if not more so, than CNA's, right? Why not afford non-gender biased and gender neutral job titles to all of the positions in the nursing field? With such, who knows, today's nurse doctors, (few as they now may be,) might actually fill some future job role as general practioners, seperate from medical doctors who are forevermore increasingly specialized in their practices of medicine. Why hold the profession back, with images of nuns and white hatted nurses?
Until then, I prefer to be refered to as a man nurse! And if anybody dons their white hat for ceremony, me thinks I'll put on my steak-and-shake hat! Anyway, think of a name, Registered HealthCare Process Administrator, or just Registered HealthCare Administrator, whatever, it wouldn't change anything for the worse, only the better. A female RHPA could still wear a Pooh Bear scrub top if her job permits, just don't hold all the other professionals back with the archaic gender biased job titles any longer! Next to nothing would change for the worse, only for the better.
Okay, the white hats might have to go if somebody is really hung-up on them, same as the white skirts for ceremony perhaps, but when mostly just scrub pants are worn on the job anyway, come on, we aren't trying to look like some order of nuns anymore, are we? If so, I better put "ManNurse" on my resume, just to make sure I'm not mistaken for one of those! It's bad enough publicly being cited as a nurse who is a man, over and over again! What a surprise! Think it's got anything to do with the word "nurse" in the job title? PCT's, techs, have no problem with the fact that they are working in the field of nursing, there's no problem there. Let's solve if for the rest of the field, for the advancement of the profession!
When someone says to me, "I'm an administrative assistant" I think to myself,
"you're a secretary".
You can change the name but you aren't changing anything.
--------------------------------------
Definitions of nurse on the Web: try to cure by special care of treatment, of an illness or injury; "He nursed his cold with Chinese herbs"
harbor: maintain (a theory, thoughts, or feelings); "bear a grudge"; "entertain interesting notions"; "harbor a resentment"
serve as a nurse; care for sick or handicapped people
one skilled in caring for young children or the sick (usually under the supervision of a physician)
treat carefully; "He nursed his injured back by lying in bed several hours every afternoon"; "He nursed the flowers in his garden and fertilized them regularly"
nanny: a woman who is the custodian of children
breastfeed: give suck to; "The wetnurse suckled the infant"; "You cannot nurse your baby in public in some places" wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwnA nurse is a health care professional, who is engaged in the practice of nursing. Nurses are men and women who are responsible (with others) for the safety and recovery of acutely ill or injured people, health maintenance of the healthy, and treatment of life-threatening emergencies in a wide range of health care settings. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse
I SEE ONE DEFINITION AMONGST MANY for the word NURSE
That references breastfeeding.
The rest simply refer to the caring for of others.
It's likely that it's your own personal view of the word nurse that has skewed your view of the word.
Past ignorance or bias in society has created a stereotype in some people so that they view the word nurse in a feminine light.
I totally disagree with changing the name. Instead, people should be educated as to what the word NURSE means.
Changing a job title to something politically correct and I'll be honest with you, something as ridiculous as Registered Healthcare Process Administrator is flat out wrong and the idea of such a change should be met with serious opposition.
Changing the name of your job does not change anything about the job. It doesn't change the way it is viewed by others. It doesn't make it any more respectable. It doesn't do anything but waste peoples time.
If you are a janitor for instance, and you change your job title to Director of Custodial Activities or Director of Janitorial Services, you're still doing the same job you were before. If people were disrespecting you, it was (well it was ignorant, but that's not the point) because of the job you did, not the "name" of the job you did.
The link provided in the initial post is broken so I couldn't read the article. But it was mentioned to change the title "nurse" to "Registered HealthCare Process Administrator, or just Registered HealthCare Administrator". Given the verbage, the convincing, the continued changes in nurse practice, and the old physicians who still use Windows 95, I think the title change wouldn't be flexible enough. It would take more than a man to change the title from "nurse" to "(something manly) nurse"; it would take a god.
Then it would need JCAHO's approval.
Face it, the name change is futile. Time to get back to work.
I started my current phase of nursing, in a nursing home, as a noc shift nurse. The prohibition against any kind of physical restraint took some adjusting. I had worked in hospitals and was accustomed to using posey vests and soft cuffs on confused patients who were at risk for falling and injury. This was now not an option and sprinting into rooms when a personal safety alarm went off was frustrating, especially when it was happening over and over. I will always remember a demented gentleman who not only taught me to deal with this new situation, but gave me my favorite job title on the same night.
After firmly reminding this resident for the 7th or 8th time that he must not self transfer out of bed, I noticed that he was staring intently at my ID badge which identified me by name and title. I returned to the nurse's station and resumed my charting No more than ten minutes had passed when I heard the alarm again give it's high pitch squeal. My NAC's ran into the room ahead of me, as I was tied up signing out narcotics for another resident. When I had locked up the narcs, I followed them into the room where they were, once again, re-settling this man in bed. He looked at me suspiciously, but said only " I know, I know" The aides were smirking and obviously amused, I was not. I just repeated the caution about self transferring, When we left the room, both NAC's burst into laughter. they said that when they entered the room, this fellow was on all fours on the safety mat that we had place at his bedside earlier. He looked up at them and said, " I don't mind if you girls help me, but I am getting sick of that son of b**ch with a badge!"
Now...that's a title I could live with. Not a soft squishy nurse. But a rugged SOB with a badge. Sounds more like a gunslinger. I still hear co-workers(3 yrs later) comment...don't mess with him, he's no sweet, little nurse...he's the SOB with a badge."
nurseguy55 wrote:I started my current phase of nursing, in a nursing home, as a noc shift nurse. The prohibition against any kind of physical restraint took some adjusting. I had worked in hospitals and was accustomed to using posey vests and soft cuffs on confused patients who were at risk for falling and injury. This was now not an option and sprinting into rooms when a personal safety alarm went off was frustrating, especially when it was happening over and over. I will always remember a demented gentleman who not only taught me to deal with this new situation, but gave me my favorite job title on the same night.
After firmly reminding this resident for the 7th or 8th time that he must not self transfer out of bed, I noticed that he was staring intently at my ID badge which identified me by name and title. I returned to the nurse's station and resumed my charting No more than ten minutes had passed when I heard the alarm again give it's high pitch squeal. My NAC's ran into the room ahead of me, as I was tied up signing out narcotics for another resident. When I had locked up the narcs, I followed them into the room where they were, once again, re-settling this man in bed. He looked at me suspiciously, but said only " I know, I know" The aides were smirking and obviously amused, I was not. I just repeated the caution about self transferring, When we left the room, both NAC's burst into laughter. they said that when they entered the room, this fellow was on all fours on the safety mat that we had place at his bedside earlier. He looked up at them and said, " I don't mind if you girls help me, but I am getting sick of that son of b**ch with a badge!"
Now...that's a title I could live with. Not a soft squishy nurse. But a rugged SOB with a badge. Sounds more like a gunslinger. I still hear co-workers(3 yrs later) comment...don't mess with him, he's no sweet, little nurse...he's the SOB with a badge."
LOL, that was great! In fact, I'd think a better username for you would be SOBwithBadge ;)
BTW, please post up a Thread in the New User Intro Forum... and WELCOME!
Okay, I'm sick of being insulted for my opinion on the word nurse. I know what a nurse is, but I'm not the only one who uses or defines that the English language means. Of course, to the person who has really thought about and reprogrammed their brain, nurses, nannies and maids are of course, totally both male and female, and using such words are not gender specific and words like nurse, maid or nanny do not in anyway bring to mind an image of a female more than a male. But I don't think that's what the words mean to most people. I think most people, distant to the profession particularly, if you were to ask them to draw a picture of a nurse, maid or a nanny, well, I don't think you'd get many drawings of men at all.
And also to the insulter, I wasn't insisting on particular new titles, and I didn't use the word assistant way except for where it already is, in a CNA's job title. I don't think nurse assistant sounds a bit more stately than administrative assistant. And I am serious, Maid, Nanny or assistant nanny brings up an image of a female to me, if that's being wrong brained, and there's manly man nannies who really wish the 800,000,000 English speakers who haven't gotten the jest yet would hurry up and get it in their heads that some nannies are men now too, so they won't have to hear giggles or comments like "male nanny" anymore. If you are so right, then no nursing home residents or hospital patients say "male nurse"? Ah...but they do, all the time!!! And I haven't heard "female doctor," in ages, even though I'm not sure the ratio there is any different...it's the word "nurse" in people's brains...it might prove next to impossible to reprogram everybody to think equally of men when they hear "Nurse, nanny or maid," and there's been no big outcry by nannies or maid to fight using other titles instead, as most of their employers have!
I wasn't insisting on using Registered or Licensed Practical HealthCare Process Administartors RHPA or LPHPA, or just RHA or LPHA, although I like those. Come up with something. Call them Registered Healthcare Commanders for all I care! Just as I'd rather be an office clearner, house cleaner, cleaning service worker, or something, rather than be called a maid, I'd rather a job title without the word nurse in it, even if in fact one is still an nurse practicing nursing.
Although I guess until then I'll have to put up with being called or refered to as a male nurse, and knowing this is how people obviously DO think, I might has well insist on Man Nurse. I mean, come on, male nurse sounds about as sissified as male maid, or male nanny. Come on, at least I'm going to try to beef up the unofficial second title that people give nurses who are not women. Man-maid or man-nanny or man-nurse all sound a bit more toughed up to me, not nearly as emasculating as being a male-nurse, or just nurse even if that's what people are even thinking but not saying.
Until the job titles chance, I'm a Man nurse, got it? It doesn't seem to take the wind out of the sails of Patient Care Technitions to be called that, instead of nursing assistant, and I don't hear people screaming that it's ridiculous, that they should be called nursing assistants, and that PCT sounds stupid! So why be so defensive of job titles like Licensed Practical Nanny or Registered Nurse, even if by any other names excluding the words Nanny or Nurse, they function of the job is exactly the same!!!
I understand than Nurses and Nannies are perhaps used to and proud of the titles, even male nannies perhaps. But I beg pardon that I can understand those out there who for some strange reason think that nurse, nanny and maid are sissy words for a man to be called. Maybe they are trying to be respectful by saying male nurse, as to let you know that they aren't seeing you as an emmasclated sort of sissy man who thinks or wants to be a woman! Words like doctor and teacher, are different than words like nanny and nurse, the concept of the latter two just don't seem to change with a change in gender ratios very easily. Even for me. And I've been in the field for years, and it's still sort of a sissy word for me too, sorry to say.
Anyway, show me any man who the terminology "Naughty Nurses Go Wild," brings up some mental picture of bad boys having fun, even if in equal numbers with bad girls going wild, and either you they have been in nursing, or somehow exposed to nursing a lot, for a very long time, or they are gay. Bad boys having fun is not my image of "naughty nurses gone wild" and to heck if this man-nurse ever wants that to be his image! If I start thinking like that, trying to de-sissify sissy words, them I might end up too terrified to even think of accepting some gag gift of a french maid to come clean my house, for fear of what sort of weirdo freak of a man might show up!!!
I like the job, the position, helping people, caring, don't even mind having a degree in nursing or a nursing profession, as I havea degree in another field too, and have done other things so it is not the definition of my being outside of working and practicing it, but the job titles with the word nurse in it, you can take it, please, I beg of God in heaven!
Even the title D.O.N. is okay, because you are the "Director of..." and last I heard, "Director," isn't a sissy word. Neither is secretary, considering things like "Secretary of Defense," etc. I could live with that even, being a secretary, as that word, like doctor, isn't anchored in gender by anything other than the ratios of who does it. But because of Nursemaids, nursing babies and the fact that some nurse still wear little white hats and white skirts as part of the "professional," image of the profession, well, changing the image of the word is helpless.
Just too many Hollywood movies alone have already been made with little white hat submissive cuties. Do you think doctors who happen to be women would seriously consider lowering themselves to wearing a white skirt and little old fashioned white waitress type hat or something as part of looking professional? Get serious.
For now, the job title is just a slight humiliation I just gotta live with, if I want the money and satisifaction of knowing I'm helping people in the way that nurses do. Just thought I'd suggest ways to make things better.
"...For now, the job title is just a slight humiliation I just gotta live with, if I want the money and satisifaction of knowing I'm helping people in the way that nurses do. Just thought I'd suggest ways to make things better."
I found a way to make things better... for me as a male nurse.
TheInvisibleCar wrote:Okay, I'm sick of being insulted for my opinion on the word nurse. I know what a nurse is, but I'm not the only one who uses or defines that the English language means. Of course, to the person who has really thought about and reprogrammed their brain, nurses, nannies and maids are of course, totally both male and female, and using such words are not gender specific and words like nurse, maid or nanny do not in anyway bring to mind an image of a female more than a male. But I don't think that's what the words mean to most people. I think most people, distant to the profession particularly, if you were to ask them to draw a picture of a nurse, maid or a nanny, well, I don't think you'd get many drawings of men at all.
And also to the insulter, I wasn't insisting on particular new titles, and I didn't use the word assistant way except for where it already is, in a CNA's job title. I don't think nurse assistant sounds a bit more stately than administrative assistant. And I am serious, Maid, Nanny or assistant nanny brings up an image of a female to me, if that's being wrong brained, and there's manly man nannies who really wish the 800,000,000 English speakers who haven't gotten the jest yet would hurry up and get it in their heads that some nannies are men now too, so they won't have to hear giggles or comments like "male nanny" anymore. If you are so right, then no nursing home residents or hospital patients say "male nurse"? Ah...but they do, all the time!!! And I haven't heard "female doctor," in ages, even though I'm not sure the ratio there is any different...it's the word "nurse" in people's brains...it might prove next to impossible to reprogram everybody to think equally of men when they hear "Nurse, nanny or maid," and there's been no big outcry by nannies or maid to fight using other titles instead, as most of their employers have!
I wasn't insisting on using Registered or Licensed Practical HealthCare Process Administartors RHPA or LPHPA, or just RHA or LPHA, although I like those. Come up with something. Call them Registered Healthcare Commanders for all I care! Just as I'd rather be an office clearner, house cleaner, cleaning service worker, or something, rather than be called a maid, I'd rather a job title without the word nurse in it, even if in fact one is still an nurse practicing nursing. Although I guess until then I'll have to put up with being called or refered to as a male nurse, and knowing this is how people obviously DO think, I might has well insist on Man Nurse. I mean, come on, male nurse sounds about as sissified as male maid, or male nanny. Come on, at least I'm going to try to beef up the unofficial second title that people give nurses who are not women. Man-maid or man-nanny or man-nurse all sound a bit more toughed up to me, not nearly as emasculating as being a male-nurse, or just nurse even if that's what people are even thinking but not saying. Until the job titles chance, I'm a Man nurse, got it? It doesn't seem to take the wind out of the sails of Patient Care Technitions to be called that, instead of nursing assistant, and I don't hear people screaming that it's ridiculous, that they should be called nursing assistants, and that PCT sounds stupid! So why be so defensive of job titles like Licensed Practical Nanny or Registered Nurse, even if by any other names excluding the words Nanny or Nurse, they function of the job is exactly the same!!! I understand than Nurses and Nannies are perhaps used to and proud of the titles, even male nannies perhaps. But I beg pardon that I can understand those out there who for some strange reason think that nurse, nanny and maid are sissy words for a man to be called. Maybe they are trying to be respectful by saying male nurse, as to let you know that they aren't seeing you as an emmasclated sort of sissy man who thinks or wants to be a woman! Words like doctor and teacher, are different than words like nanny and nurse, the concept of the latter two just don't seem to change with a change in gender ratios very easily. Even for me. And I've been in the field for years, and it's still sort of a sissy word for me too, sorry to say. Anyway, show me any man who the terminology "Naughty Nurses Go Wild," brings up some mental picture of bad boys having fun, even if in equal numbers with bad girls going wild, and either you they have been in nursing, or somehow exposed to nursing a lot, for a very long time, or they are gay. Bad boys having fun is not my image of "naughty nurses gone wild" and to heck if this man-nurse ever wants that to be his image! If I start thinking like that, trying to de-sissify sissy words, them I might end up too terrified to even think of accepting some gag gift of a french maid to come clean my house, for fear of what sort of weirdo freak of a man might show up!!! I like the job, the position, helping people, caring, don't even mind having a degree in nursing or a nursing profession, as I havea degree in another field too, and have done other things so it is not the definition of my being outside of working and practicing it, but the job titles with the word nurse in it, you can take it, please, I beg of God in heaven! Even the title D.O.N. is okay, because you are the "Director of..." and last I heard, "Director," isn't a sissy word. Neither is secretary, considering things like "Secretary of Defense," etc. I could live with that even, being a secretary, as that word, like doctor, isn't anchored in gender by anything other than the ratios of who does it. But because of Nursemaids, nursing babies and the fact that some nurse still wear little white hats and white skirts as part of the "professional," image of the profession, well, changing the image of the word is helpless. Just too many Hollywood movies alone have already been made with little white hat submissive cuties. Do you think doctors who happen to be women would seriously consider lowering themselves to wearing a white skirt and little old fashioned white waitress type hat or something as part of looking professional? Get serious. For now, the job title is just a slight humiliation I just gotta live with, if I want the money and satisifaction of knowing I'm helping people in the way that nurses do. Just thought I'd suggest ways to make things better.
Wow, you wrote a lot on the matter of title. I feel the same way, really, that there will never be a gender besides female associated with the term "nurse." Assigning a gender neutral title to what is currently called nursing would help us guys out and probably the women too. I don't see it happening because it's just us guys who seem to be hung up even a little bit, on the term. "Nurse" really does conjure up many assorted images none of which is masculine. I, like you and most other guys in the field, have come to live with it even if I still introduce myself by name and say "I'll be taking care of you today". I don't say "Hi, I'm your nurse today." My patients get it. If their prior experience has led them to believe or if their foredrawn conclusion is that male nurses have to be effeminate, I think I positively change their perspective. I am a highly skilled, very caring and sensitive nurse but also very masculine.
TheInvisibleCar - Be advised, no one has insulted you! However, FYI your reference to "the insulter" will get you a verbal warning from me! Why? Because I'm one of the Mods on this threads that has the back of our founder of this site... Shortbus [A.K.A. Aaron]. Now, with this advice I will add another suggestion that you not take ANY OF THIS personal. Okay? In other words, take two and post back on this Thread in the morning. ;)
I do admire your passion and enthusiasm towards bringing more males into the nursing profession. However, I must agree the best we can do is educate the public to the healthcare role we nurses fill. As an active duty Army ICU Male RN at Madigan Army Medical Center patients often mistake me as an MD. I politely inform those mistaken that I'm an RN. BTW, I always introduce myself to my patient's as ... Hello, my name is First Lieutenant Cary James Barrett and I will be your primary nurse today. I realize that is a mouthful but important to clearly introduce myself to my patient's. Yes, I do wear an ID badge that clearly states my name, rank, and staff position. Nevertheless, we all know about stereotypes.
Patients, especially geriatrics, see male staff as MD's & female staff as nurses. Yet, this does not imply that the general public is gender bias towards the healthcare profession. This does give light to the technological advances that have been made since the days of Florence Nightingale and the ignorance of the general public. I will not downplay, or discredit the importance of nurses some +15 years ago. However, I'd venture to say the general public is unaware of the autonomy that is given to most critical care nurses today. Time has long past since female nurses were hand-maidens to crusty old male doctors. The healthcare profession is a team effort with males & females on both sides of the nursing & medical model.
The Madigan Army Medical Center motto is Care with Compassion. This motto is for all AMEDD [Army Medical Department] staff... officers, enlisted, professionals, ancillary staff, etc. Bottom line, I'm man enough to nurture & cultivate [i.e. nurse] my patient's whether that be in the environment of a Medical Center CONUS, or on foreign soil in a Combat Support Hospital with IEDs in the immediate area.
In closing, be proud of your gender, your profession, and educate other's of the same appropriately.
Ricu wrote:Wow, you wrote a lot on the matter of title. I feel the same way, really, that there will never be a gender besides female associated with the term "nurse." Assigning a gender neutral title to what is currently called nursing would help us guys out and probably the women too. I don't see it happening because it's just us guys who seem to be hung up even a little bit, on the term. "Nurse" really does conjure up many assorted images none of which is masculine. I, like you and most other guys in the field, have come to live with it even if I still introduce myself by name and say "I'll be taking care of you today". I don't say "Hi, I'm your nurse today." My patients get it. If their prior experience has led them to believe or if their foredrawn conclusion is that male nurses have to be effeminate, I think I positively change their perspective. I am a highly skilled, very caring and sensitive nurse but also very masculine.
Hang in there, dude.
R
I always inform my patient's that I will be their primary nurse. BTW, in my line of work the term nurse need not conjure up non-masculine images...
- Apparently the term "nurse" has enough female connotation within it to make a Male Nurses Forum necessary on this website.
- Ask ANY child to draw a picture of a nurse. What gender do you think would be selected most of the time? What would that nurse be wearing?
- The politically correct terms PoliceOfficer and FireFighter are not gender neutral since the separate words Officer and Fighter are not necessarily gender neutral and those sub-roles are usually describing masculine traits/characteristics of either men or women. The profession of Doctor has been evolving and is no longer perceived as primarily a male role. I attribute this to the popularity of TV shows that have a large number of female doctor characters. Shows like ER, House, Scrubs, etc, all have many female doctor characters with management roles. Ironically they have very few male nurse characters. In fact I'm not sure that the show "House" has ANY nurse characters, male or female... but that's a separate thread.
- Since the public determines the evolutionary road of language, it is not possible to "educate the public" as to the proper definition of any word. However, it is possible to change the public's perspective on the use of the word by the manipulation of the mass media, i.e. the term "doctor." Consider the many words that have changed definitions over the years, even within my lifetime of 40 years. The best example I can think of is the word "gay." Do you think it would be possible to "educate the public" as to the correct definition of that word? No. Because the correct definition has changed. Find a dictionary from 50 years ago and compare it with a current version and you'll see what I mean.
Personal note -
I very much dislike the term "nurse" because of the female connotations and stereotypes that go along with it. The gay stereotype is losing steam and I appreciate that because lifestyle really has very little to do with profession.
The true solution to this issue would be to actually change the female connotation by the use of mass media. If the news reporters would stop referring to male nurses in the news as "male nurse soandso" and if a popular TV show featured a high ratio of nursing characters who were male and correctly showed the nursing role of both genders as one of being in charge of patient care and the decision making process in the plan of care, partnered with physicians, then this gender stereotype would die down.
A bit off subject, but during the Middle Ages, many priests/monastarians were nurses. Cammer, you make a good point as to how kids would draw nurses. Back in my parent's day, the 'normal' job openings for women were secretaries, nurses, the Phone Co. :rolleyes: Yes, things are changing. My job description will always be a 'nurse' though. 'Cat' :)
Clearly you feel very comfortable in your male nurse skin. For that, I'm grateful. Some how, you interpreted my less than full bore enthusiam with the title of nurse as shame. Let my assure you, I am not ashamed of the title, just not very cozy with it but I think it's pretty clear to my patients and colleagues what I do for work. I think I belong more in Cammer's camp than yours, Mag
Clearly you feel very comfortable in your male nurse skin. For that, I'm grateful. Some how, you interpreted my less than full bore enthusiam with the title of nurse as shame. Let my assure you, I am not ashamed of the title, just not very cozy with it but I think it's pretty clear to my patients and colleagues what I do for work. I think I belong more in Cammer's camp than yours, Mag
Take care, friend.
R
Ricu, What camp is it that you suppose I belong to? IMHO, the only "camp" I am a member to is the Army Nurse Corps.
BTW, I never implied you are ashamed of the title nurse. I was merely trying to point out that males can be nurses, no matter what misinformed children may think. I care not about ignorance of the general public. As a nurse [that happens to be a male] I do care about my patients.
Cammer -
"Apparently the term "nurse" has enough female connotation within it to make a Male Nurses Forum necessary on this website."
NO, apparently those [Males] with a similar interest [Males in Nursing] just like to have a forum to discuss specific issues related to Males in Nursing.
"Ask ANY child to draw a picture of a nurse. What gender do you think would be selected most of the time? What would that nurse be wearing?"
I prefer to educate children, this way when they grow up they will know the nursing profession is NOT a gender-bias profession.
....
I do agree the public needs to be educated that the nursing profession has long past the role of handmaiden to doctors.
Hey, all good thoughts and replies. Thanks to all who read my lengthy disertations. I just had to get it all out. Perhaps whenever I hear the terminology "male nurse" I'll just bark up to say that I prefer to be called a manly nurse. Hey, maybe there could even be an International Association of Manly Nurses someday! LOL
Just wanted to let you all know that my 4 1/2 YO son was talking care of his father who had the flu. When my husband said "you'll make a great Dr. someday," my mancub said "No daddy, I'm a nurse. Nurses take care of people. Dr.s just give orders"
Notice he didn't say I'm a male nurse. - Hopefully it the next generation that will be able to rise above gender labels and let people just be what they are.
hppygr8ful wrote:Just wanted to let you all know that my 4 1/2 YO son was talking care of his father who had the flu. When my husband said "you'll make a great Dr. someday," my mancub said "No daddy, I'm a nurse. Nurses take care of people. Dr.s just give orders"
Notice he didn't say I'm a male nurse. - Hopefully it the next generation that will be able to rise above gender labels and let people just be what they are.
Hppy
LOL, sounds like hubby has a lot to learn from your mancub.
MagRedC5 wrote:LOL, sounds like hubby has a lot to learn from your mancub.
LOL - My hubby has a lot of things to learn - but that's a very long story We did however produce this amazing mancub who teaches us new things about life each day.
Here's an Idea! Lets leave the name how it is, be proud of who we are and what we do! If someone throws a stereotype at ya and you have an issue with it, maybe you need to take a good look at yourself rather then trying to change the name of what you are! I'm a male nurse and proud of it. Spent many of years dealing with the stereotypes ( hmmm he must be gay... Hmmm guess again!), makes me laugh more then anything else. Dunno why everyone always wants to change something that isn't broken. My job is about what I do, the lives I change, and the care I bring to the bedside. Lets just change the name USA to WPC (World of Politically Correct):rolleyes:
Cameron wrote:Here's an Idea! Lets leave the name how it is, be proud of who we are and what we do! If someone throws a stereotype at ya and you have an issue with it, maybe you need to take a good look at yourself rather then trying to change the name of what you are! I'm a male nurse and proud of it. Spent many of years dealing with the stereotypes ( hmmm he must be gay... Hmmm guess again!), makes me laugh more then anything else. Dunno why everyone always wants to change something that isn't broken. My job is about what I do, the lives I change, and the care I bring to the bedside. Lets just change the name USA to WPC (World of Politically Correct):rolleyes:
The whole idea of asking a child to draw a picture of a nurse on paper is an interresting idea. Although, my 1st curiosity to this question resides with at what age do you 1st ask them to do this, secondly is anyone in the home/family a nurse, and lastly is that person within the family male/female if so. The reason I state this is because children are not born with gender stereo types, racism, or radical ideas. This stuff is bread into them from the environmet in which they are raised. If a child is brought up to know only women to be nurses, then the question at hand is obvious. Although, bring that same child up in a society that there are equal number men/women in nursing and you may find a different result. Personal experience will effect this as well. (exp. If hospitalized at a young age chances are if they had a male or female nurse they will draw them due to memory.)
IMO, this becomes a very loaded question. If I were to ask the 5yr old that i raised for some time to draw me a picture of a nurse. I am sure I would find a male figure on the picture due to the fact that I am the only nurse he knows!
Cameron wrote:The whole idea of asking a child to draw a picture of a nurse on paper is an interresting idea. Although, my 1st curiosity to this question resides with at what age do you 1st ask them to do this, secondly is anyone in the home/family a nurse, and lastly is that person within the family male/female if so. The reason I state this is because children are not born with gender stereo types, racism, or radical ideas. This stuff is bread into them from the environmet in which they are raised. If a child is brought up to know only women to be nurses, then the question at hand is obvious. Although, bring that same child up in a society that there are equal number men/women in nursing and you may find a different result. Personal experience will effect this as well. (exp. If hospitalized at a young age chances are if they had a male or female nurse they will draw them due to memory.)
IMO, this becomes a very loaded question. If I were to ask the 5yr old that i raised for some time to draw me a picture of a nurse. I am sure I would find a male figure on the picture due to the fact that I am the only nurse he knows!
Cameron,
Again, a great post. I'm sure glad you joined the UltimateNurse team.
I've had great expereinces being a dude and being a nurse. I've never been abrasive about the connotations of being a nurse. It's always been a job, I punch in and out the same as others. I think it's a pretty damn tough job, not everyone can do it. It's a badge of honor to deal with life, death and illness.
I'll be honest and say I know I've been promoted a lot faster than some of my female compatriots. I think it's been a bit different being a psych nurse though, it tends to draw out more men in general. I've always gotten along with the docs, techs.... Men in nursing is necessary because it can stabilize the otherwise too feminine environments as well. Too much in-fighting between the ladies sometimes.
Marcados wrote:I've had great expereinces being a dude and being a nurse. I've never been abrasive about the connotations of being a nurse. It's always been a job, I punch in and out the same as others. I think it's a pretty damn tough job, not everyone can do it. It's a badge of honor to deal with life, death and illness.
I'll be honest and say I know I've been promoted a lot faster than some of my female compatriots. I think it's been a bit different being a psych nurse though, it tends to draw out more men in general. I've always gotten along with the docs, techs.... Men in nursing is necessary because it can stabilize the otherwise too feminine environments as well. Too much in-fighting between the ladies sometimes.
MagRedC5 wrote:Cammer -
"Apparently the term "nurse" has enough female connotation within it to make a Male Nurses Forum necessary on this website."
NO, apparently those [Males] with a similar interest [Males in Nursing] just like to have a forum to discuss specific issues related to Males in Nursing.
If your statement was true then there would be a Females in Nursing forum as well.
I'm not trying to push your buttons here, and I'm not sure that my attempt to post will even work given the broken nature of this thread, but it was you who stated "Let us use this forum as a way to promote the nursing profession to men, and to the ultimate goal of nursing becoming a non-gender bias career field."
Did I misunderstand or have you changed your viewpoint? It seems to me that you and I are already in agreement that there is a current gender bias in this field.
Cammer wrote:If your statement was true then there would be a Females in Nursing forum as well.
I'm not trying to push your buttons here, and I'm not sure that my attempt to post will even work given the broken nature of this thread, but it was you who stated "Let us use this forum as a way to promote the nursing profession to men, and to the ultimate goal of nursing becoming a non-gender bias career field."
Did I misunderstand or have you changed your viewpoint? It seems to me that you and I are already in agreement that there is a current gender bias in this field.
I certainly agree that we can disagree on issues, and yet still enjoy learning from each other's thoughts... as we can best understand. ;)
For me, I know I process things in an entirely different manner than women. I think that not only is okay to have a forum for men in this field, but that it is necessary to have a safe place to beat our drum.
I think to create the thought now, that nursing can be free of gender bias, is also necessary. If we are to create some sort of balance in the male / female ratio, then the seed of thought needs to be planted. Most things in life do not operate well without balance, we as nurses should be acutely aware of that. There is a reason why salaries have remained low for so many years, why it's been hard to organize unions or shared governance, or why staff ratios can be screwed up. Guys won't take that crap. I've heard that from feminist nursing instructors, so it's not a novel idea.
So, let's be in the man cave and exchange some ideas, kind of like we're doing now.
Marcados wrote:For me, I know I process things in an entirely different manner than women. I think that not only is okay to have a forum for men in this field, but that it is necessary to have a safe place to beat our drum.
I think to create the thought now, that nursing can be free of gender bias, is also necessary. If we are to create some sort of balance in the male / female ratio, then the seed of thought needs to be planted. Most things in life do not operate well without balance, we as nurses should be acutely aware of that. There is a reason why salaries have remained low for so many years, why it's been hard to organize unions or shared governance, or why staff ratios can be screwed up. Guys won't take that crap. I've heard that from feminist nursing instructors, so it's not a novel idea.
So, let's be in the man cave and exchange some ideas, kind of like we're doing now.
That's a great post Marcado. You've brought up some excellent points. In the past nurses have not really pushed the innate power of the profession because women are not socialized to be leaders. It's rare that I meet a woman who can lead or manage. Hell, it's rare that I meet ANYONE who is really a good leader. There is so much wrong in nursing that it is going to take a long time to see a reversal. Public perception must be one of the highest priorities. The public's perception of a nurse is outdated and antiquated. But we can change it through becoming active in the public eye. Writing letters to newspapers, offering services to be consulted on news stories. We really need to set the record straight. The bottom line here is that once the public perception of nursing changes we will see the gender bias associated with the term "nurse" begin to wash away and more men will be rightfully attracted to a great profession.
Hopefully, soon will be gone the perception of the Nightingale nurse who cows down to the allknowing physician. In it's place will arise the reality of a college educated working professional who works alongside the physician to prevent disease and heal sickness.
Marcado, if you and I have anything to disagree upon it might be how we speak of nursing. In a previous posting you stated;
"It's always been a job, I punch in and out the same as others. I think it's a pretty damn tough job, not everyone can do it. It's a badge of honor to deal with life, death and illness."
While I agree with the meaning of that sentence I don't agree with your choice of the term "job." A job is something that you just do. You can leave it for something different with little lapse in thought or feeling. Nursing is a profession. A profession is what you identify with, it is part of who you are, it is where your heart lies. A professional doesn't have a job, he has a career. Perhaps I'm nitpicking a bit, but subtle changes in word choice can really make a difference when communicating and being professional. Marcado, I'm pointing this out because I think that you are a professional. You care enough to post here and express feeling and interest geared towards improving nursing. Well done.
Cameron wrote:The whole idea of asking a child to draw a picture of a nurse on paper is an interresting idea. Although, my 1st curiosity to this question resides with at what age do you 1st ask them to do this, secondly is anyone in the home/family a nurse, and lastly is that person within the family male/female if so. The reason I state this is because children are not born with gender stereo types, racism, or radical ideas. This stuff is bread into them from the environmet in which they are raised. If a child is brought up to know only women to be nurses, then the question at hand is obvious. Although, bring that same child up in a society that there are equal number men/women in nursing and you may find a different result. Personal experience will effect this as well. (exp. If hospitalized at a young age chances are if they had a male or female nurse they will draw them due to memory.)
IMO, this becomes a very loaded question. If I were to ask the 5yr old that i raised for some time to draw me a picture of a nurse. I am sure I would find a male figure on the picture due to the fact that I am the only nurse he knows!
Hey Cam,
Thanks for your eloquent input. I appreciate your situation and how it positively affects that of all nurses. The boy that you speak of helping to raise is a lucky kid indeed becaue you help to parent him well. Keep being you.
Cameron wrote:The whole idea of asking a child to draw a picture of a nurse on paper is an interresting idea. Although, my 1st curiosity to this question resides with at what age do you 1st ask them to do this, secondly is anyone in the home/family a nurse, and lastly is that person within the family male/female if so. The reason I state this is because children are not born with gender stereo types, racism, or radical ideas. This stuff is bread into them from the environmet in which they are raised. If a child is brought up to know only women to be nurses, then the question at hand is obvious. Although, bring that same child up in a society that there are equal number men/women in nursing and you may find a different result. Personal experience will effect this as well. (exp. If hospitalized at a young age chances are if they had a male or female nurse they will draw them due to memory.)
IMO, this becomes a very loaded question. If I were to ask the 5yr old that i raised for some time to draw me a picture of a nurse. I am sure I would find a male figure on the picture due to the fact that I am the only nurse he knows!
You further strengthen my point Cameron. I used the example of a child drawing a picture to show the powerful propaganda tool that the mass media is to influence the perceptions of the public at a young age. You postulate that the influence that you have had on that 5 y/o was enough to completely negate that media influence. I believe that you are probably correct. Your example is perfect. If we can persuade the mass media (TV/journalists/Hollywood) to change the antiquated stereotype that they are so fond of then the entire meaning and gender bias of the word "nurse" will change. No longer will that term be associated with femininity and a subordinate role. It will become associated with strength, independence, professionalism, knowledge, and caring.
hppygr8ful wrote:Just wanted to let you all know that my 4 1/2 YO son was talking care of his father who had the flu. When my husband said "you'll make a great Dr. someday," my mancub said "No daddy, I'm a nurse. Nurses take care of people. Dr.s just give orders"
Notice he didn't say I'm a male nurse. - Hopefully it the next generation that will be able to rise above gender labels and let people just be what they are.
What wisdom comes from the mouths of babes!! This story made my day.
For some reason I haven't been able to access most of this thread until today so some of these postings are new to me.
Ricu wrote: I feel ... that there will never be a gender besides female associated with the term "nurse." Assigning a gender neutral title to what is currently called nursing would help us guys out and probably the women too.
Ricu, I strongly disagree with this. This is changeable. When I was very young I remember that it was notable and considered somewhat unusual for a female to be a physician. A doctor was assumed to be male unless referred to as a "woman doctor" or "lady doctor." In a previous posting I mentioned that the profession of physician has been evolving and is no longer perceived as primarily a male role. I attribute this to the popularity of TV shows that have a large number of female doctor characters. Shows like ER, House, Scrubs, etc, all have many female doctor characters with strong leadership roles. Ironically they have very few, if any, male nurse characters.
Since public perception determines the evolutionary road of language it is not possible to educate the public as to the proper definition of any word. However it is possible to change the public's perspective on the use and meaning of a word by the manipulation of the mass media, e.g. the gender neutralization of the term "doctor." Consider the many words that have changed definitions over the years, even within my lifetime of 40 years. The best example I can think of is the word "gay." Do you think it would be possible to "educate the public" as to the correct definition of that word? No. Because the correct definition has changed. If you don't know what I mean then find a dictionary from 50 years ago and compare it with a current version.
I've mentioned this before but it bears repeating. The true solution to this issue would be to actually change the female connotation of the nursing profession by the use of mass media. If the news reporters would stop referring to male nurses in the news as "male nurse soandso" and if popular TV shows featured a proper ratio of nursing characters who were male and correctly showed the nursing role of both genders as one of being in charge of patient care as well as the decision making process in the plan of care, partnered with physicians, then this gender stereotype would die down.
Yes this gender thing is a bit of a stigma..."a Nurse...a male-nurse...??!!" my father said when I informed him at Christmas that I was going backto school to become a nurse.
anyone over the age of say 45 knows a very different world. One that reaked of inequality in gender, religon, and race. The fragmentation of society that occured when our brothers were being drafted to fight in a unwinnable war that had rubber production at it's roots more than the spred of communism, is a fragmentation that became a powerful force of change.
These draftees were denied the right to vote for the people who were making the policies that were sending them to war! Before the mid 70's the voting age was 21. At 18 you were old enough to kill for your country but somehow not old enough to be trusted with the responsibility of voting! Go figure! This is just an example of the primitive concepts that ruled our society that very recent quarter-century ago. I remenber the first Black Actor based TV series 'The Jeffersons" which televised the first mixed race couple (George Jefferson the play on the promiscuity of our Founding-Fathers).
The discord with-in society had everyone paying attention, then came Kent State! that and the identical incident that occurred in Mississippi, of which no-one remembers because they were black students, turned the tide from fragmentation to reconciliation. In this reconciliation the mature white male lost a bit of his dominance, role barriers were erroded, race barriers were erroded too. There is still a good deal of control maintained by us white guys but the barriers continueto erode. The changes were facilitated by gender-non-specific titles such as the Mailman becoming the Mail-carrier, etc.. But NURSE remains. Ending in that feminine vowel and all. Perhaps if we stuck a tough masculine consenant such as 'K' or 'R' or 'N', something like that, or a nutral consenant like 'T' or 'M' or 'B'. Just get rid of the sissy 'se'.
Sorry for my wandering diatribe, the reason I am here is I am writting a report for foundations 102 on Luther Christman and If anyone can refer me to any articles on the ManNurse I would greatly appreciate it.
By the way I will be proud to call myself a Nurse when I make it through school!
Thanks, Richard
to change. 
and post back on this Thread in the morning. ;)
