Why are RN programs so difficult?

I have been an lpn for one and a half years now. I am enrolled in an lpn to rn express program, and I am currently finishing my prerequisites in order to be considered to start my nursing courses. So many of my friends who are already in the program are failing out. These students are A students and are stressed to the point of illness. I know the rn program requires you to be able to critically think , but why is it so stressful? Out of 200 students admitted to the program , only 50 are passing.
Is it me or is there something wrong with that picture?

Well ... is it OK for it to be this way? Maybe not. Does it happen everywhere? Absolutely.

Nursing schools weed out people before they get into school, during the program, and then the NCLEX will weed out a couple more. Some schools are more difficult than others, but I have to say that I haven't heard of any one of my friends or coworkers that didn't have a fair number of dropouts/fails in their respective programs. The classes just aren't that easy and there is absolutely a minimum level of competency. If you don't meet that, you fail out.

You have to remember as well that nursing courses usually will only take a minimum of a 70% to pass the course. Most programs are at 75% or even 78%. Lots of majors let you sail through with a C- average and still come out with a degree at the end. Not so with nursing.

The last thing I would mention here is the hazing that goes on in some programs with professors and/or clinical instructors. Some instructors take it on themselves to decide who is going to make it and who isn't and it is extremely difficult to get through a program if the people in power are trying to shoot you down.

It does suck. I hated my basic nursing program for all the reasons listed above, but it was worth it in the end.

Plus, they have changed the NCLEX at least 3 times since I took it. Now, they are going to change the LPN one next year, also. Another thing to worry about.

Swann, we're here to help and support you!

Well my friend just informed me that half her class has failed out, including her. This is very discouraging for me. I'm not even sure
if it's worth it for me to even try. I mean i have to pay for these classes, I'm not eligible for grants.

To give you some perspective I will tell you that there were 68 students in my starting class and 18 of us graduated. High drop out rate is to be expected in RN school. The standards are set higher just to pass so someone used to skating along on a C average isn't going to cut it. Nursing school is hard because nursing is hard. The stress and abuse you take in school is just a sample of what you will experience as a nurse. Arrogant doctors, nurses who eat their young, thankless patients and families is all the truth and bad news of nursing - Too many people are heading off to nursing school because they see it as a recession proof job. Then they find out how hard it is.

Those of us who love what we do and survive the profession will tell you that the pay is rarely worth the blood, sweat, tears and time away from our families that we give to it. But there's a magical thing that happens when a patient gives you a smile, a family member offers thanks or a colleague (dr or Nurse) recognizes your talent. We do this because we love people and the money is a secondary perc.

My advice is to not look at nursing as a way to make money - look at it as a vocation. Talk to nurses and see how you feel. When it comes to school you have to be ready to devote all your energy to that. If you really want it - you can do it.

Peace and Namaste

Hppy

hppygr8ful wrote:To give you some perspective I will tell you that there were 68 students in my starting class and 18 of us graduated. High drop out rate is to be expected in RN school. The standards are set higher just to pass so someone used to skating along on a C average isn't going to cut it. Nursing school is hard because nursing is hard. The stress and abuse you take in school is just a sample of what you will experience as a nurse. Arrogant doctors, nurses who eat their young, thankless patients and families is all the truth and bad news of nursing - Too many people are heading off to nursing school because they see it as a recession proof job. Then they find out how hard it is.

Those of us who love what we do and survive the profession will tell you that the pay is rarely worth the blood, sweat, tears and time away from our families that we give to it. But there's a magical thing that happens when a patient gives you a smile, a family member offers thanks or a colleague (dr or Nurse) recognizes your talent. We do this because we love people and the money is a secondary perc.

My advice is to not look at nursing as a way to make money - look at it as a vocation. Talk to nurses and see how you feel. When it comes to school you have to be ready to devote all your energy to that. If you really want it - you can do it.

Peace and Namaste

Hppy

Isaid nothing about money except to mention the fact that I have to pay for classes. In no way am I in the profession for the money, although money does help. The point I'm trying to address here is that there is no reason why 68 students as in your case should get dropped from a program. Those are very bad statistics, and I find it hard to believe, that they were dropped because they couldn't perform in a manner deemed passable. The students at my school work very hard. I see them in the library from sun up to sun down. I consider myself an excellent dialysis nurse. The only thing I'm trying to do is further my education, and upgrade myself as an RN.

My perspective is this, having had the luck to go to a private 4-year nursing school, is that they are not all the way you describe. My school was empowering, supportive, and had a 100% pass rate on the NCLEX...I believe that they invested in us the way we invested in them. I now attend a graduate nursing program, and same thing...tons of support, although this is absolutely not a private school, it is the top grad program for nurses even internationally. Support. Patience. Kindness (with rare exception)

All that being said, I took a full-time instructor position about 18 months ago, and I lasted about 3 months. This program was absolutely brutal to their students and they embraced the "weeding" out process wholeheartedly. They claimed a 100% pass rate, but they failed anyone they thought would have difficulty passing. I saw their grads take the NCLEX 2 and 3 times EVENTUALLY passing, so that is where their numbers came from. So, I quit. I was not "raised" in that manner of instruction and I could not abide it. In fact, they used the same mentality with the instructors, the "eating their young" policy.

Keep on trucking SWAN, it will be worth the journey. Being a nurse is something you don't go after unless you are willing to endure a lot before and after you arrive. You are obviously up for the task. Good luck.

Thank you so much for your words of courage. My spirits have been lifted just to know that there are individuals like you out there, ready and willing to help your fellow woman/man. May God continue to bless all of us who need more people like you in our world.

swann829 wrote:Isaid nothing about money except to mention the fact that I have to pay for classes. In no way am I in the profession for the money, although money does help. The point I'm trying to address here is that there is no reason why 68 students as in your case should get dropped from a program. Those are very bad statistics, and I find it hard to believe, that they were dropped because they couldn't perform in a manner deemed passable. The students at my school work very hard. I see them in the library from sun up to sun down. I consider myself an excellent dialysis nurse. The only thing I'm trying to do is further my education, and upgrade myself as an RN.

I did not mean to imply that you personally were going into nursing for the money. While the statistics for my class may seem unacceptable please understand that not all of them were "dropped" from the program. A large number left for various reasons- some simply decided that nursing was not for them after-all. As for study time there more to it than time - my father once told me it's not enough to work hard - you have to work smart. Idon't want to start a debate between LPN and RN's but I saw at least two LPN Career ladder candidates who had a very difficult time making the shift from the more task oriented job of LPN to the more detailed assessment and think on your feet skills that a good RN has. Granted a lot of this comes with experience and time and as I said if you want to be an RN bad enough you will get through it.

I actually dropped out for a whole semester due to personal problems but came back and finished stronger than ever with my focus adjusted - You can do it too.

Peace and Namaste

Hppy

Happy, I am in awe that you even went back after leave from such a tough program. I have been so tempted at times to leave the doctoral program...it's a lot tougher than I thought, and you know about my "personal" problems already. I know that I would not have the gumption to go back after that.

I have both loved and hated being a nurse...sometimes simultaneously...that is possible I discovered. Some days are better than others aren't they?

Did either of your programs (Swan and Happy) admit based partially on a lottery? I think those programs are the most infamous for weeding students out. It seems like a more careful selection process, followed by some actual support by instructors and clinical preceptors (have I heard some horror stories about those!) would be a better way to admit potential nurses. The school I taught at did the lottery and then focused on "who would be a good nurse" and made life impossible for those who weren't up to par by their own twisted definition.

Swann, I know school is tough---and I know you can do it, just like Hppy, Syck, and I did.

As Hppy said, sometimes it IS the switch from LPN to RN that could get people; sometimes, it is life in general. Juggling 3 hours of studying per semester hour, home life, kids, etc----that can get to people.

You've found a place to 'bounce' your stress! BTW, stop by the Rubber Room; maybe you'll find some inspiration there?!

swann829 wrote:Well my friend just informed me that half her class has failed out, including her. This is very discouraging for me. I'm not even sure
if it's worth it for me to even try. I mean i have to pay for these classes, I'm not eligible for grants.

Ditto. I just grad-u-ma-tated, and am waiting to take boards. Loans all the way. I will say, there are those that can do, but cannot teach, those that cannot do but can teach, and a limited few who are capable of both. This is a primary reason i have little patience for the current BSN+ standard paradigm.

I work for a university, I have worked for universities/teaching hospitals for most of my 20 years, and will unequivocally say it is more about publication(at the University level) and tuition than substantive teaching. If a program needs a "weeding out" model, the Dean and staff have poorly designed the entrance criteria.

This isn't Hell Week. We don't have to urinate on ourselves and our cohorts to fight off hypothermia, and we don't have to deactivate IEDs after 36 hours without sleep. Pretending that this is so is simply that: pretend.

Abusive docs and staff? Please. I have no problem calling security or PD and following through on charges. Institutional rules may not legally preclude your right to physical safety. Using so-called instruction as a method to teach tolerance of such behavior is inappropriate and socially/psychologically degrading.

If you feel your program is bad, the best I can suggest is to check with their accrediting body, and see where you may have grounds for complaint (generally things like incomplete syllabii, unprofessional conduct-has to be documented, inappropriate grading, i.e., shifting a curve to pass/fail w/o providing reasons specified in either the syllabus or institutional SOPs). Follow the chain of command (professor-program coordinator-Dean-accrediting agency), but save your most evidentary info for either the Dean or the Accreditor. If you don't have something that can be put on paper, you have to suck it up...

I had to edit and say: this may purely be gender bias, but much of the difficulty (at least what I experienced) was significant confusion in the staff over trying to teach a "model of caring," i.e., professors determined to show the complex physical-emotional framework. Most nursing tasks are physical. They are readily taught, easily drilled, and when taught in context of tiered disease/trauma models, not terribly hard to select in decision making. Differing personalities will have different care models (which is why different personalities gravitate to various specialties). Most care giving decisions can be made based on Maslow and Erickson. It becomes convoluted when schools or professors stress their own variations and attempt to use post-grad models to teach "critical thinking". This demonstrates the brilliance of the professor, not the students' ability to prioritize and assess.