What To Expect (ADN versus BSN)

[chronometer1970]

Greetings Folks,

My name is John and I am new here. I am 36 years old and am considering a career in nursing. It just took me a long time to get here, and I have some questions.

I am looking at an ADN program to train me for the RN license. Frankly the BSN schooling around Washington DC is extremely competitive (Johns Hopkins and University of Maryland) and very expensive. I already have a bachelor's degree and master's degree in business, but no formal education past the biology & chemistry basics. I found a program at a community college that looks awesome.

Question: will having an ADN hurt me versus having a BSN? Meaning, will the BSN and MSN folks order me around like a grunt cleaning all the bed pans and getting them coffee? Serious...is there a HUGE pecking order difference in going the ADN route?

Question: what are the clinicals like for a 2-year ADN program? Can I expect to be thrown into the "challenging" stuff fast? Or do they sugarcoat things till then end? I am really curious about what to expect.

Regards,
John

[NavyJim58]

Hi John and welcome to the forum. I'll give you my two cents worth of advice on your questions. It has been my experience over 25 years that for non management nursing jobs it makes no difference whether you have an ADN or BSN degree. Most places pay the same and no one will say i'm over you because I have a bsn and you only have an ADN. The difference comes into play when you decide to go for a management job or nurse educator job or teaching job. The BSN is the minimum for many jobs above task nursing. Having a bachelors and masters in business could help you in nursing but you will probably need the BSN at least if you advance beyond task nursing.

But.....depending where you work.....with the nursing shortage being what it is today and only getting worse......you could even advance to management with the ADN and your other degrees. :luck:

[cassioo]

Question: what are the clinicals like for a 2-year ADN program? Can I expect to be thrown into the "challenging" stuff fast? Or do they sugarcoat things till then end? I am really curious about what to expect.

Regards,
John[/QUOTE]

Clinicals in the 2 year programs I know about do start pretty quickly and are longer to start with. You do have skill check offs which you do procedures in a classroom lab setting before doing them on people and you are always adding to the things you can do and with how much supervision you need/get from instructors or staff. There is lots of paperwork involved in nursing school and the ADN program covers material quickly.

[chronometer1970]

Thank you folks. I do appreciate your experiences here.

The reason that I ask these questions is because my extended family seems to be very down on the fact that I would go from a 12 years business career to something "low-level" (as they term it) like being a nurse. Frankly I don't agree with them at all, and its led to some tension between my parents and I. They forget that I am a 36 year old man and not a 16 year old boy.

My uncle (who used to be an ER doctor) breaks it down by saying, "Do you really want to go into an environment where a bunch of 24 yrs old ex-sorority dingleberry chicks with college BSNs order you around all day while they hangout and chat about where to go drinking and their boyfriend issues?" So he seems to keep nailing me to the wall with that and it is frustrating to me because I can't seem to get any support.

The reason that I am seeking a career in nursing is because I really would like to add some good to the world above and beyond E-Commerce nonsense. I truly feel that I can be good at a career in healthcare.

Regards,
John

[onetraveler]

Thank you folks. I do appreciate your experiences here.

The reason that I ask these questions is because my extended family seems to be very down on the fact that I would go from a 12 years business career to something "low-level" (as they term it) like being a nurse. Frankly I don't agree with them at all, and its led to some tension between my parents and I. They forget that I am a 36 year old man and not a 16 year old boy.

My uncle (who used to be an ER doctor) breaks it down by saying, "Do you really want to go into an environment where a bunch of 24 yrs old ex-sorority dingleberry chicks with college BSNs order you around all day while they hangout and chat about where to go drinking and their boyfriend issues?" So he seems to keep nailing me to the wall with that and it is frustrating to me because I can't seem to get any support.

The reason that I am seeking a career in nursing is because I really would like to add some good to the world above and beyond E-Commerce nonsense. I truly feel that I can be good at a career in healthcare.

Regards,
John

HMMMMMMMMMMMM curious here. And WHY isn't he an ER doc anymore. Some BSN tell him off???? LOL

It just isn't like that. We take the same boards. I don't know who has a BSN or an ADN unless they flaunt it on their badge.

We did have an ICU nurse who had her badge labeled Denise BSN. And we had a GI bleeder code. She tried to get a 22 in his hand. WTH good is 22 to a GI bleeder who's coding.
I put an 18 in his AC and ran the fluid wide open, gave 2 units of blood through it and laughed at her badge all the while.

BTW I have my BSN. I was in the system from years before, and the waiting line was shorter so I went the BSN route. It's a fallacy that BSN will help you move up the ladder of nursing. I've found out over the years that if you are good where you are i.e. the bedside your supervisior won't let you transfer. So either you perform poorly, or move to another environment.

Good luck, it's wonderful to see men or any person interested in nursing, Some of us "old" nurses are getting tired and will be patients ourselves one day. We need people who want to be in this profession. Tell your family to back off.:whipping: :whipping: :whipping:

[NavyJim58]

I'm not surprised to hear your uncle has the attitude he displays. It has been my experience that a large percentage of physicians do not respect nurses and for supposely intelligent people consistently act like complete jerks. The physicians at my hospital, especially in critical care recently complained that the nurses need an attitude adjustment. They should realize that when you disrepect someone on a daily basis that person is not going to respect you back. The physicians refuse to accept their responsibility for working together for the good of the patients. They have consistently refused to meet with nurses to discuss the attitude and working issues and some of them have even gone so far as to voice publically that they will continue to treat the nurses like they treat their children.

To be fair there are physicians who do treat nurses with respect and try to communcate and work with us but it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the working enviornment. In my 25 years of nursing doctor nurse relationships have not changed for the better.

thanks for listening

[onetraveler]

I'm not surprised to hear your uncle has the attitude he displays. It has been my experience that a large percentage of physicians do not respect nurses and for supposely intelligent people consistently act like complete jerks. The physicians at my hospital, especially in critical care recently complained that the nurses need an attitude adjustment. They should realize that when you disrepect someone on a daily basis that person is not going to respect you back. The physicians refuse to accept their responsibility for working together for the good of the patients. They have consistently refused to meet with nurses to discuss the attitude and working issues and some of them have even gone so far as to voice publically that they will continue to treat the nurses like they treat their children.

To be fair there are physicians who do treat nurses with respect and try to communcate and work with us but it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the working enviornment. In my 25 years of nursing doctor nurse relationships have not changed for the better.

thanks for listening

Actually I've found over the years (27 of them) that sometimes or more times than not you just have to tell someone off. Tell them you're not stupid, that you know something and they'd better stop treating you the way they are. And usually when you stand up to someone it's interesting to watch them back down.

You have to draw a line they aren't allowed to cross. And if they do it'll be hell to pay.

I heard on one of these forums about a nurse who got tired of a doc having a temper tantrum in the nurses' station. So she politely told him if he didn't stop it she was telling his mom. That fixed him.

I've had to come up short with docs before and actually it made for a better working relationship. I've even told them they treated the male nurses better. That doc asked a male nurse "Do I treat you better than the female nurses?" And the male nurse said "YES" And the doc said well I"m gonna work on that. And he did.

Don't allow people to walk all over you. Do you (as in You in general) think allowing them to walk all over you is gonna change anything. The only person who can change it is you. If you confront them they may or may not change but they have no excuse now. They know there is a problem.

BTW what is your speciality Jim?

[AmandaWIRN]

Thank you folks. I do appreciate your experiences here.

The reason that I ask these questions is because my extended family seems to be very down on the fact that I would go from a 12 years business career to something "low-level" (as they term it) like being a nurse. Frankly I don't agree with them at all, and its led to some tension between my parents and I. They forget that I am a 36 year old man and not a 16 year old boy.

My uncle (who used to be an ER doctor) breaks it down by saying, "Do you really want to go into an environment where a bunch of 24 yrs old ex-sorority dingleberry chicks with college BSNs order you around all day while they hangout and chat about where to go drinking and their boyfriend issues?" So he seems to keep nailing me to the wall with that and it is frustrating to me because I can't seem to get any support.

The reason that I am seeking a career in nursing is because I really would like to add some good to the world above and beyond E-Commerce nonsense. I truly feel that I can be good at a career in healthcare.

Regards,
John

Don't let your family stop you from doing what you want to do. If doing something you love & helping others is "low" to them, that's pretty darn shallow. Life isn't only about paychecks and corporate ladders- that's pretty sad if they can't understand that there's a lot more to it than that.

As far as BSN vs. ADN goes, like others have said, there really isn't a difference when it comes to pay or who gets to be charge nurse. Most of the time, I have no idea whether the nurses I work with have their BSN or ADN. All of our name tags just say RN. I happen to have my BSN, & sometimes I work as charge nurse, but I would say at least 50-60% of the time, the charge nurse is someone with an ADN- it really makes no difference. Sometimes a BSN will help you get into management easier, but that's about it.

Now, if you've been working in business for a while, and you already have a bchelor's (it can be in anything), many schools offer a fast-track BSN program for people who already have a bachelor's (the thinking is you've already taken most of your non-nursing credits)- this way you could get your BSN in about the same time it would take to get an Associate's.

[cougarnurse]

Welcome to the site, John! Glad to have you here.

So....you want to be a nurse? I say "Go for it!" It doesn't matter whether you're an ADN or a BSN; the thing that matters is that you are making a difference in someone's life.

:endof:
And the family (esp. your uncle)is having hissy fits about you wanting to be a nurse, eh? The way I see things, we nurses see the patient waaay much more than the MD's do. Enough said!

Again, welcome to the site, and drop by often!

'Cat'

[Cammer]

Greetings Folks,

My name is John and I am new here. I am 36 years old and am considering a career in nursing. It just took me a long time to get here, and I have some questions.

I am looking at an ADN program to train me for the RN license. Frankly the BSN schooling around Washington DC is extremely competitive (Johns Hopkins and University of Maryland) and very expensive. I already have a bachelor's degree and master's degree in business, but no formal education past the biology & chemistry basics. I found a program at a community college that looks awesome.

Question: will having an ADN hurt me versus having a BSN? Meaning, will the BSN and MSN folks order me around like a grunt cleaning all the bed pans and getting them coffee? Serious...is there a HUGE pecking order difference in going the ADN route?

Question: what are the clinicals like for a 2-year ADN program? Can I expect to be thrown into the "challenging" stuff fast? Or do they sugarcoat things till then end? I am really curious about what to expect.

Regards,
John

Hi John,

I guess I'm kinda late to this thread, but please be assured that an ADN is just as competent in a clinical setting as a BSN nurse. There are some things covered in a BSN program that are pertinent to bedside nursing, but for the most part it is an academic and management oriented degree. You will only really need a BSN if you are interested in padding your resume for a management position, or if you are planning on furthering your education in nursing to the masters or doctorate level, as I am planning. If you do not plan on administration or advanced practice then I would not put the time into a BSN.

However, in your specific case, since you already have a Masters in Business, you are very well set up for a hospital administration position. You have a tremendous headstart in this regard and your resume would seem to be very well padded already. Getting a BSN wouldn't hurt, but I'm not sure that you need it.

If you are interested in changing careers to nursing you should take comfort in the fact that many men do the exact same thing at about your age. I did. I started the ADN program when I was 37 and have no regrets whatsoever. I only wish that I had done it sooner.

I also had some resistance from a family member. I too have an uncle, who is a physician, and is near retirement from a very successful practice. He has not verbally disapproved of my decision but it's clear from how he talks about his son, who is near completion of a physician residency, that he doesn't think much of my new career. But, honestly, I don't think much of most physicians.

Nursing is a well respected profession. The fictitious scenario of a bunch of 24 y/o bimbos simply doesn't exist except in B movies and soap operas.

Just ask your uncle this question - if he went into work one day and there were no nurses, would he have the critical thinking skills, the knowledge, the physical skills, and the experience to adequately care for the patients? I have yet to meet a physician who would be able to do this. Most doctors can't even start an IV. Now if the nursing staff went into work one day, and there were no physicians available, what would happen? Does he think that the nurses would all stand around wondering what to do? No. An experienced nursing staff has the knowledge to adequately care for most patient problems, especially in an ER setting. Nurses know what to do, what labs to order, what procedures to perform, we just have to get a physician's order before we can legally do it. I've only been in nursing a few years but I've already saved doctors many times because of things the the doc forgot to order, or orders that were inappropriate. I don't know how many times docs have asked me what dosage would be most appropriate, or what my opinion was concerning some oddball lab results.

The bottom line is this: Doctors need nurses. In an extreme scenario nurses would not necessarily need doctors. But also keep this in mind - physicians and nurses are a Team. Patient outcomes are at their best when everyone works together with respect and keeps their ego in check. Nurses and physicians both perform very important functions in patient care.